Randi accepts anecdotal evidence?

[thaiboxerken]

An anecdote of a person doing something mundane is of much more value than one of a person doing paranormal feats.

Do critical thinkers resort to Woo-woo tactics?

No, because we acknowledge that it is an anecdote and not really "evidence" of anything. However, it is a decent reason to doubt the extraordinary claims of JOG.

 

[rwguinn]

An anecdote of a person doing something mundane is of much more value than one of a person doing paranormal feats.

Ah---"My strength is that of ten because my heart is pure"? Sounds almost religous--our stories are true because they come from the true god, not that faker you believe in.

No, because we acknowledge that it is an anecdote and not really "evidence" of anything. However, it is a decent reason to doubt the extraordinary claims of JOG.

Don't need any reason other than the demonstrable fact that he is full of (rule 8)

Roger

 

[thaiboxerken]

Ah---"My strength is that of ten because my heart is pure"? Sounds almost religous--our stories are true because they come from the true god, not that faker you believe in.

This is definitely an inaccurate analogy. The mundane are those things which most people will agree to being factually possible. A woman getting an infection from a cut is not extraordinary. The claim that a person is possessed by spirits and never causes infections with his scalpel, despite the lack of sanitation, is extraordinary. There are no gods involved with my position, and there is plenty of evidence to support that fact that cuts can become infected. The nature of an anecdote is what can give it more or less value. I am perfectly willing to accept an anecdote from my wife when she says that the dog pooped on the rug, even if I didn't see any evidence. However, if my wife said that the turd floated in the air and grew wings, I'd really have to doubt her anecdote unless I saw evidence.

Don't need any reason other than the demonstrable fact that he is full of

It seems to me that yours are the eyes that are brown.

 

[Starrman]

An anecdote of a person doing something mundane is of much more value than one of a person doing paranormal feats.

So you think it was OK for Randi to take an e-mail from a complete stranger, with no coroboration as evidence against John of God?

Again - I think the dude is a scum-bag liar, and am not defending him. But we scream for the medical records of those claiming to be healed, but just accept someone's word that they got an infection. I do think this case is somewhat of a double-standard.

No, because we acknowledge that it is an anecdote and not really "evidence" of anything. However, it is a decent reason to doubt the extraordinary claims of JOG.

In this specific case and for the referring commentary, I don't think this is true. In general, you are right - but I read it as taking an e-mail story from a stranger at face-value simply because it says what we all want to hear.

I haven't re-read it in a while, I'll take another look and see if I feel any different.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So you think it was OK for Randi to take an e-mail from a complete stranger, with no coroboration as evidence against John of God?

I think it was ok for Randi to post the email.

I do think this case is somewhat of a double-standard.

It is. If someone tells me that they can drive a car, I'll usually believe them. If they say they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I don't believe them. Yes, it's a double-standard, but it's one I've developed based on my knowledge of reality.

 

[T'ai Chi]

It is. If someone tells me that they can drive a car, I'll usually believe them. If they say they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I don't believe them. Yes, it's a double-standard, but it's one I've developed based on my knowledge of reality.

Of course, since no one has actually told you they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I'd have to question how strong your grasp really is.

 

[CFLarsen]

Of course, since no one has actually told you they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I'd have to question how strong your grasp really is.

There you go again: You know everything that anyone has ever told other people.

 

[Starrman]

It is. If someone tells me that they can drive a car, I'll usually believe them. If they say they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I don't believe them. Yes, it's a double-standard, but it's one I've developed based on my knowledge of reality.

I see your point, certainly someone e-mailing saying JOG cured a brain tumor should be dismissed in terms of evidence in favor of JOG.

And certainly someone getting an infection from an incision JOG made is something that is possible, if not likely.

There are millions of documented cases of infections from cuts, and no documented cases of JOG directly healing someone.

While this anecdote in no way proves an infection occurred, it is more plausible than any of the healing stories (healing attributed to his magic powers - I'm sure some people got better naturally or through conventional treatment).

I think this is the key sentence:

Also, infections do occur — serious ones, to judge from this account.

Reading this again in the light of some of the comments on this topic, this seems to be acknowledging that the conclusions is only as valid as the e-mail.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Of course, since no one has actually told you they can shoot lasers out of their arse, I'd have to question how strong your grasp really is.

This is true, but people have told me that they can talk to spirits and that they can manipulate chi energy.

Reading this again in the light of some of the comments on this topic, this seems to be acknowledging that the conclusions is only as valid as the e-mail.

What's great about this board is that people are open enough to have their minds changed. Kudos to you for seeing my side of the issue.

 

[T'ai Chi]

There you go again: You know everything that anyone has ever told other people.

In response to what I said, Ken said "This is true", so it seems I was correct.

The truth hurts.