Merged Rally to Restore Sanity

[Tricky]

His name isn't Cat Stevens. It's Yusuf Islam.



Funny you should mention "mortal enemies". Yusuf Islam has chosen to make Rushdie a mortal enemy. That is not simply a disagreement. The only way to avoid becoming mortal enemies with Yusuf is to avoid blasphemy (which is, BTW, an asymmetric arrangement - Rushdie doesn't want him dead). Do you really feel that that's a tolerable restriction? Even if you don't want to commit blasphemy, I consider that incompatible with basic American values, and I'm disappointed to find out that you feel otherwise.

Not according to Wickapedia.

The singer attracted controversy in 1989, during an address to students at London's Kingston University where he was asked about the fatwa calling for the death of author Salman Rushdi. The media interpreted his response as support for the fatwa. Yusuf released a statement the following day denying that he supported vigilantism, and claiming that he had merely recounted the legal Islamic punishment for blasphemy. In a BBC interview, he displayed a newspaper clipping from that time period, which quotes from his statement. Subsequent comments made by him in 1989 on a British television programme were also seen as being in support of the fatwa. In a statement in the FAQ section of his web site Yusuf asserted that he was joking and that the show was improperly edited. In the years since these comments, he has repeatedly denied ever calling for the death of Rushdie or supporting the fatwa.

(And his name is actually Steven Demetre Georgiou)

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

His name isn't Cat Stevens. It's Yusuf Islam.



Funny you should mention "mortal enemies". Yusuf Islam has chosen to make Rushdie a mortal enemy. That is not simply a disagreement. The only way to avoid becoming mortal enemies with Yusuf is to avoid blasphemy (which is, BTW, an asymmetric arrangement - Rushdie doesn't want him dead). Do you really feel that that's a tolerable restriction? Even if you don't want to commit blasphemy, I consider that incompatible with basic American values, and I'm disappointed to find out that you feel otherwise.

"What is guilt by association for 1000, Alex?"

 

[thaiboxerken]

His name isn't Cat Stevens. It's Yusuf Islam.



Funny you should mention "mortal enemies". Yusuf Islam has chosen to make Rushdie a mortal enemy. That is not simply a disagreement. The only way to avoid becoming mortal enemies with Yusuf is to avoid blasphemy (which is, BTW, an asymmetric arrangement - Rushdie doesn't want him dead). Do you really feel that that's a tolerable restriction? Even if you don't want to commit blasphemy, I consider that incompatible with basic American values, and I'm disappointed to find out that you feel otherwise.

Your posts about this brings one phrase to mind.....

Turd in the punchbowl.

 

[applecorped]

Who's the turd and who is the punchbowl?

 

[Buckaroo]

Well, the 3 minutes with Yusuf really ruined the three hour rally, and the hours spent in DC afterwards.

I'm still fuming.

I don't get that either. If the rally was to encourage sanity, putting a religious fundamentalist on stage who has in the past advocated death for a writer wasn't really doing service to that agenda. And it opens the rally up to legitimate and unecessary criticism from the teabaggers and the rest of the Right. Bad move.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Who's the turd and who is the punchbowl?

Let me rephrase it.

"Ziggy put a turd in the punchbowl."

 

[applecorped]

Trouble
Oh trouble please be kind
I don't want no fight
And I haven't got a lot of time



Steven Cat Demetre Yusuf Georgiou Stevens Islam

 

[Ziggurat]

Not according to Wickapedia.

Really?

"Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes."

Or how about this bit:
"The New York Times also reports this statement from the program: [If Rushdie turned up at my doorstep looking for help] I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is."

Quite the comedian, that Yusuf.

Yusuf Islam has tried to rewrite his past, but it's a whitewash: he supported the death sentence against Rushdie, and has never actually retracted that support.

"What is guilt by association for 1000, Alex?"

I'm not claiming or suggesting that Stewart agrees with Yusuf on this point. But who you CHOOSE to associate yourself with does matter. I won't blame Stewart for the behavior of anyone who shows up at the rally (that would be unfair guilt by association), but if you're trying to suggest he holds no responsibility for the people he invites and puts on stage, well, that's just nonsense.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Just got back and it was insane. We got to our hotel at 10:25 and immediately headed for the Metro at the Red line Zoo station. And it was a zoo, the station was packed, all the trains headin in toward the Metro Center were packed, so we took a train back out to the fourth stop out the line and finally caught a train back in, stand room only all the way.
Word was on the train that we should stay on the line until two stops after the Metro Center and walk, because Metro Center was so crowded that you couldn't get on a train that went closer.
Got to the rally at about 1:45, in time to hear, but not see (too far away, blocked by trees, signs and large Abe Lincolns) Ozzy Osborne and the former Cat Stevens. It had to be a couple of hundred thousand people there.
More later, with some lame photos of the above., if I can locate the cord for my camera.

 

[MaGZ]

It certainly looked big, but shots across a crowd can be deceptive. It looked bigger than the obvious recent comparison, but it also didn't have the reflecting pool to dear with.

How do you know it’s not just Hollywood special effects created by the Jews?

 

[Piscivore]

That suggests that wanting Salman Rushdie killed for committing blasphemy is simply another opinion, and not something which should be held as antithetical to and incompatible with western democratic values.

Really? What are "western democratic ideals"? It doesn't seem like there's even a consensus in this country- just a bunch of people shouting that their idea they share with a few other people are the only ones possible.

But no, I don't think it's "antithetical and incompatible". I occasionally want people dead, and have said so. It wouldn't break my heart if the reality show producers got into a bus crash together, and I'd buy the guy that cut the brakes a drink.

The dude shot his big damn mouth off. If we're going to make that a crime we might as well pack up and leave the country to the squirrels.

 

[varwoche]

Yusuf Islam's varying excuses...

(1) he was only interpreting Islamic law, not stating his personal opinion
(2) he was joking

... impress me as BS of a high order indeed. If these excuses were truthful, I'd expect him to have straightened the record -- to have denounced the fatwah using clear, strong, unequivocal language. I'm not aware that he did so then or since.

(Mods, how about splitting this to a new thread. Think of the punch.)

 

[MaGZ]

I've got a couple of friends going.

But, it's pointless. Despite the 'Sanity' in the name, they'll come home, and still vote straight Democratic.

Until people wake up to the fact that the Democratic and Republican parties are committed to keeping the statist status quo, we're going nowhere.

Gus Hall is long gone.

 

[applecorped]

Really? What are "western democratic ideals"? It doesn't seem like there's even a consensus in this country- just a bunch of people shouting that their idea they share with a few other people are the only ones possible.

But no, I don't think it's "antithetical and incompatible". I occasionally want people dead, and have said so. It wouldn't break my heart if the reality show producers got into a bus crash together, and I'd buy the guy that cut the brakes a drink.

The dude shot his big damn mouth off. If we're going to make that a crime we might as well pack up and leave the country to the squirrels.

Have you wanted anyone dead for writing a book? Just curious.

 

[Piscivore]

Have you wanted anyone dead for writing a book? Just curious.

The "Bridges of Madison County" dude. But most of my ire goes to the horrible people on the "housewives" shows.

 

[Ziggurat]

Really? What are "western democratic ideals"?

This isn't all-inclusive, but of relevance here is the idea that everyone is equal under the law, that the state alone should have a monopoly on the use of violence for punishment, that we have a right to our own beliefs, and a right to express those beliefs.

But no, I don't think it's "antithetical and incompatible". I occasionally want people dead, and have said so.

And have you ever wanted them dead because of something they said?

It wouldn't break my heart if the reality show producers got into a bus crash together, and I'd buy the guy that cut the brakes a drink.

Then I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but you're a reprehensible person.

The dude shot his big damn mouth off.

The dude supported a death sentence against somebody for writing a book. A death sentence, BTW, which has led to the person in question having to live in hiding for decades now.

If we're going to make that a crime

I'm not suggesting that we make it a crime, or even treat it like one. If I thought it should be a crime, then Stewart wouldn't be the one I'd be disappointed in, the government (which is responsible for responding to crimes) would be. And that's rather my whole point: what he said is NOT a crime. But Yusuf thinks that what Rushdie wrote is a crime.

 

[applecorped]

The "Bridges of Madison County" dude. But most of my ire goes to the horrible people on the "housewives" shows.

Fair enough.

 

[Piscivore]

Really?

"Robertson: You don't think that this man deserves to die?
Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
Robertson: Yes.
Y. Islam: Yes, yes."

Or how about this bit:
"The New York Times also reports this statement from the program: [If Rushdie turned up at my doorstep looking for help] I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like. I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is."

Quite the comedian, that Yusuf.

Yusuf Islam has tried to rewrite his past, but it's a whitewash: he supported the death sentence against Rushdie, and has never actually retracted that support.

I've never retracted some of the stupid **** I said 21 years ago. Have you? Or have you never said somethig stupid?

I'm not claiming or suggesting that Stewart agrees with Yusuf on this point. But who you CHOOSE to associate yourself with does matter. I won't blame Stewart for the behavior of anyone who shows up at the rally (that would be unfair guilt by association), but if you're trying to suggest he holds no responsibility for the people he invites and puts on stage, well, that's just nonsense.

And it's been suggested that you can associate with someone and have a dialogue with them even if you disagree strongly with them. That you don't have to treat them like an abomination and a mortal enemy that will dirty one's integrity just by being in the same room- on the same stage- with him. Seems like inviting someone like this guy helps make that point.

 

[Ziggurat]

I've never retracted some of the stupid **** I said 21 years ago.

Was the stupid **** you said broadcast on national television, or reported in a major newspaper? Was it something that you were subsequently challenged on in public?

If not... scratch that: I know it wasn't. So, I don't care, and it's not relevant.

And it's been suggested that you can associate with someone and have a dialogue with them even if you disagree strongly with them.

Do you think, perhaps, that HOW you associate with them, and what you disagree with them about, might matter in some way?

Is there truly nobody whose presence on that stage you might find inappropriate?

That you don't have to treat them like an abomination and a mortal enemy

The only person in this discussion treating anyone else like a mortal enemy is Yusuf Islam.

Seems like inviting someone like this guy helps make that point.

What, that we should tolerate violent intolerance? Yeah, what a great point to make.

 

[varwoche]

I've never retracted some of the stupid **** I said 21 years ago. Have you?

If I was falsely portrayed in the world press as having advocated the death of a writer, damn right I'd retract / correct the record, as would any other innocent person.