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Rail In Houston, Vote Today

Tony

Penultimate Amazing
Tony
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
15,410
Ok Houston JREFers. Are you for or against the rail initiative? I am conflicted over the issue. But I want to hear your opinions first.
 
Tony said:
Ok Houston JREFers. Are you for or against the rail initiative? I am conflicted over the issue. But I want to hear your opinions first.
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For. Simply because we terribly need some kind of rail system, and I have not heard a valid alternate plan by those opposed.
 
Re: Re: Rail In Houston, Vote Today

Phil said:

For. Simply because we terribly need some kind of rail system, and I have not heard a valid alternate plan by those opposed.
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I agree, but the proposed rail system is horrible. It lack ambition, vision and service to the burbs. The implementation time table is way to long, and IMO, light rail is stupid. Even thought I dont agree with their stance, I am inclinded to agree with "Texans for True Mobility"'s slogan, "Costs Too Much, Does Too Little.

Am I against rail? No. I just think the proposal is bad. I guess its better than the alternative.
 
Do you have a link for us non-Houstoners who happen to have light rails where we live? Might be able to give you some perspective.

When I lived in Virginia Beach, a light rail was proposed. The idea was to have a light rail run from downtown Norfolk to the oceanfront in Virginia Beach, and also with service to the military bases.

There was a lot of opposition. The chief complaint being that it would enable gang members in Norfolk to terrorize the tourists at the oceanfront more easily.

Whatever.

Where I live now, there is a light rail. It is heavily used and favorably looked upon by everyone. My wife and I have used it many times. It saves a lot of hassle driving into the city and dealing with all the traffic and then trying to find a place to park, and costs less than parking and gas. It's great, and it goes everywhere you would want to go. Travelling within the center of the city is free.

The downside is that the fares are heavily subsidized by tax dollars.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rail In Houston, Vote Today

richardm said:


Why?
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It is slow, it has to compete with cars on the road, and it requires sacrificing a lane of traffic to facilitate the tracks. I would much prefer a heavy rail, monorail or a subway system.
 
Luke T. said:
Do you have a link for us non-Houstoners who happen to have light rails where we live? Might be able to give you some perspective.

When I lived in Virginia Beach, a light rail was proposed. The idea was to have a light rail run from downtown Norfolk to the oceanfront in Virginia Beach, and also with service to the military bases.

There was a lot of opposition. The chief complaint being that it would enable gang members in Norfolk to terrorize the tourists at the oceanfront more easily.

Whatever.

Where I live now, there is a light rail. It is heavily used and favorably looked upon by everyone. My wife and I have used it many times. It saves a lot of hassle driving into the city and dealing with all the traffic and then trying to find a place to park, and costs less than parking and gas. It's great, and it goes everywhere you would want to go. Travelling within the center of the city is free.

The downside is that the fares are heavily subsidized by tax dollars.
Click to expand...

Where do you live Luke? Dont get me wrong, I favor rail. I just wish the Houston plan was more comprehensive.

I'll see if I can dig up some links.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rail In Houston, Vote Today

Tony said:



It is slow, it has to compete with cars on the road, and it requires sacrificing a lane of traffic to facilitate the tracks. I would much prefer a heavy rail, monorail or a subway system.
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Thanks. Of course, one of the reasons for introducing light rail is to reduce the number of cars on the road, so ...!

I'm not aware of any city that has installed a light rail system that hasn't enjoyed it once it gets it. You might like it too!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rail In Houston, Vote Today

richardm said:


Thanks. Of course, one of the reasons for introducing light rail is to reduce the number of cars on the road, so ...!
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In the case of Houston, all its going to do is cause more traffic. It isnt going to get a significant number of cars off the road.

I'm not aware of any city that has installed a light rail system that hasn't enjoyed it once it gets it. You might like it too!

I might like it, and I am optimistic that I will. Im also optimistic that it will spur growth and inner city development. But like I said, I dont think it is comprehensive enough and it isnt being implemented fast enough.
 
What's going on down there? When I left Houston last year, they were well on the way to completing the first leg. Did they stop? What's the deal with this vote?

I always thought the "it doesn't go to . . " argument was extremely silly. You obviously can't build the entire system at once. It may not got there first, but it'll go there eventually.
 
I take it the Gang member voting block is in favor of the rail!!!


Whats the difference tween light and heavy rail?
 
Michael Redman said:
What's going on down there? When I left Houston last year, they were well on the way to completing the first leg. Did they stop? What's the deal with this vote?
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The vote is on a 22 mile expansion that will only service the inner loop.

I always thought the "it doesn't go to . . " argument was extremely silly. You obviously can't build the entire system at once. It may not got there first, but it'll go there eventually.

I agree.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rail In Houston, Vote Today

Tony said:



It is slow, it has to compete with cars on the road, and it requires sacrificing a lane of traffic to facilitate the tracks. I would much prefer a heavy rail, monorail or a subway system.
Click to expand...

The light rail here doesn't take up a lane. It runs parallel to the highway. Inside the city limits, it does take up a lane in some places, but for the most part doesn't interfere with traffic except when crossing roads. A lot of the rail has its own path.
 
Tmy said:
I take it the Gang member voting block is in favor of the rail!!!


Whats the difference tween light and heavy rail?
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Heavy rail is for freight trains as well as passenger trains. Requires a much deeper and heavier contructed road bed.
 
Maybe I don't understand all the angles, but I think it's a big waste of money.

I commute into downtown Houston from Cypress (about 40 miles and ttwo highways away). All told, about 40-45 minutes.

I take the buss.

I think Houston should amp up the Bus system it has. The infrastructure as already there, HOV lanes, Park and Rides, and metro schedules.

All of the job training and personel expirience, and buracracy is in place for bus. All of this will need to be duplicated for the trains that won't help Houston for at least another 5 years anyway.

Further, all of the money wasted on building light rail in Houston can go to all of the problems that Micheal Redman has detailed in threads past.

Vote no!
 
Buses are a lot easier to redirect when commuting patters change, as they do often in a city as young as Houston, but I wonder if they are not a lot more expensive over the long run to operate.

I was more for rail than against when I was in Houston, but something outsiders probably don't realize is just how low the population density is in almost the entire city. I don't think the benefits would be realized for many years, until more density grew up along the lines. Meanwhile, like c0rbin says, more emphasis needs to be put on getting people out of cars, and into buses. I don't think it should be an either/or, but rather long term and short term.

(By the way, how's that new stadium? Anyone been there yet?)
 
My folks live four blocks away from it and they can't see it. Which is good I guess, because it's kind of unattractive from the outside. Big, but not very svelt.

The inside though...[whistles]. That sucker can get rowdy.
 
Michael Redman said:
Buses are a lot easier to redirect when commuting patters change, as they do often in a city as young as Houston, but I wonder if they are not a lot more expensive over the long run to operate.
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Right, I just typed a ten billion word essay on this and lost it all when I got disconnected :angryasf-ckinghellsmillie:

So firstly, are you talking about something like the DLR http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/about/ or trams? The DLR is a robotic (no driver) light railway that runs on raised pylons and so doesnt interfere with traffic at all. Its been an unmitigated success and is being expanded as fast as the money can be found. Its helped immensely in the redevelopment of east london and has played a votal role in keeping London at the centre of world finanace.

Mike, In London they tore up all the tramways and put buses in their place. Its been an absolute disaster and we are only now getting our trams back and thats a tooth and nail fight.

The thing with buses is that a bus with 60 people on board can be held up for ages by a single inconsiderate car driver. In order to combat this, we have had to have designated bus lanes where cars are forbidden to venture and have had to fit cameras to buses to catch those who stray from the straight and narrow. So why not just get a tram system?

Of course trams are much more expensive initially than buses but probably are cheaper in the longer run. The alternative is underground railways but these are MUCH more expensive to install and maintain, plus, is something goes wrong you can end up stuck in a smelly overheated, overcrowded tunnel for hours on end.

Public transport crime? CCTV and a few police officers are the answer!

My advice WRT trams: Look how well they work in European cities. In my experience, trams are fantastic!!!

{Ill add to this later as Im getting disconnected every 30 seconds}
 
Jon_in_london,

Houston streets were never constrained by the horse and carriage as the primary transportation source.

Imagine flat disk 120 miles in diameter with a couple shallow ditches running from NW to SE.

That is Houston.

There are Interstate cross roads here.
 
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