Racism in Australia

[ponderingturtle]

Well, I for one will happily admit that there is racism in Australia. Ask anyone's grandfather. I have a question though.

Why the quotes around "australians"? Do you think we're all just pretending, or something?

I never trust a criminal or the children of such. How am I supposed to know it isn't all some big scam?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Jesus Christ, now the UNHCR. Give us a break DC.

In terms of our historical treatment of our territory's indigenous inhabitants we're among the worst in the world, if not the worst. The life expectancy and living standards of Australian aboriginals were, last time I looked, among the worst of any group of people anywhere in the world. You have a better life expectancy living in Nigeria or Bangladesh than you do as an Australian aboriginal.

That's not to say that there haven't been some well-meaning efforts to solve the problem, but every other nation on the planet except maybe China has managed to get better results than Australia has.

Part of the reason for that is ignorance and denialism from Australians, along with a healthy racist dollop of blaming the victims. Which is not to say that the "victims" do not deserve a share of the blame - drug abuse, welfare dependency, sexual violence and similar problems can't entirely be blamed on the actions of either side.

Overall it's not a black and white issue, if you'll forgive the turn of phrase, but Australia's attitudes and actions are among the very worst in the world in terms of outcomes.

 

[Akhenaten]

We all know Australia is nothing more than a province of New Zealand.

Undeed ut uz. The Wist Island, un fect.

 

[Akhenaten]

why so offended?

i wanted to form an oppinion, but based on the reactions from Australians here, i have no made my oppinion.

you are Racist and cant talk about it.

At least we can spell it.

 

[DC]

At least we can spell it.

bah, thats a racist atack against me, see i was right.

 

[Akhenaten]

bah, thats a racist atack against me, see i was right.

 

[Wildy]

From my own experiences I can say that Australians in general have a strange situation when it comes to racism. In a way it's similar to the Japanese when it comes to WWII.

Part of it is that there is a denial of the fact that Australia has done racist things in the past, and that those actions have influence social opinions even today. I would say that part of this is because Australians have never been forced to look at their actions and accept what they did was wrong.

This has, in my opinion, made Australians rather sensitive to accusations of racism from others. Whether these accusations are apt or not is irrelevant, they are essentially an attack on Australia itself, and the view that Australia is trying to put forward.

Looking back I've found that it makes a strange hypocrisy. Australians are just as willing to force others to accept their national shames as any other country, but are either unwilling to look at, or deliberately ignorant of, the actions of their own country.

 

[Zep]

In terms of our historical treatment of our territory's indigenous inhabitants we're among the worst in the world, if not the worst. The life expectancy and living standards of Australian aboriginals were, last time I looked, among the worst of any group of people anywhere in the world. You have a better life expectancy living in Nigeria of Bangladesh than you do as an Australian aboriginal.

That's not to say that there haven't been some well-meaning efforts to solve the problem, but every other nation on the planet except maybe China has managed to get better results than Australia has.

Part of the reason for that is ignorance and denialism from Australians, along with a healthy racist dollop of blaming the victims. Which is not to say that the "victims" do not deserve a share of the blame - drug abuse, welfare dependency, sexual violence and similar problems can't entirely be blamed on the actions of either side.

Overall it's not a black and white issue, if you'll forgive the turn of phrase, but Australia's attitudes and actions are among the very worst in the world in terms of outcomes.

Hmmm, that's a fairly broad brush approach.

Agreed: The situations in some places are appalling - in all metrics, Australian natives usually rate way lower than average: life expectancy, general health, education, social problems, etc, etc.

Agreed: The blatant racist attitudes towards the "abo's" does indeed live on even today, strongly in some places (WA politician Wilson Tuckey got the sobriquet "Iron Bar" from chasing black patrons away from his pub with one).

Also agreed: Some "well-meaning" responses over the last 200 years have only served to worsen the situation for Australian natives.

However: Not all is lost. Slowly but surely it is improving.

Also some history: The Australian native lifestyle before white settlement was no idyllic, magic-pink-kangaroos dream-world imagined by some activists. It was a raw, prehistoric, hand-to-mouth existence with very few rules that involved constant droughts, disease, war, famine and other pestilences.

No aborigines that I have ever met want to return to that existence. They want to move forward too, but here's the thing: They want to manage it themselves at they own pace and using their own methods, with dignity.

 

[Akhenaten]

I see our OP has scarpered. Might be embarrassed about attempting the same troll twice and still getting the wrong sub-forum.

I wonder if he'll have another go in, say, 'Current Events and Social Issues', or would that be too obvious.

'Humor' maybe? At least that would allow for some more appropriate responses.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

However: Not all is lost. Slowly but surely it is improving.

When our aboriginals have a better life expectancy that Nigerians we might reasonably expect something other than condemnation. "The worst in the world, but improving!" is not exactly a title to be proud of.

Also some history: The Australian native lifestyle before white settlement was no idyllic, magic-pink-kangaroos dream-world imagined by some activists. It was a raw, prehistoric, hand-to-mouth existence with very few rules that involved constant droughts, disease, war, famine and other pestilences.

As was the life of every other hunter/gatherer culture, yet they are doing better than the Australian aboriginals.

No aborigines that I have ever met want to return to that existence. They want to move forward too, but here's the thing: They want to manage it themselves at they own pace and using their own methods, with dignity.

It's possible that our current policies are the least worst possible way forward, but given the lack of "political will" (or to put it bluntly, sense of moral obligation) to do much about the issue I'm skeptical.

We could get more doctors, more teachers, more facilities and more social workers on to the problem, if the sense of moral obligation was there. It simply isn't.

 

[Arcade22]

It has also been reported Australia has some of the worst human rights records when it comes to its treatment of its original inhabitants.

No, the Arabs, Africans and Muslims take that prize.

 

[arthwollipot]

Of course there's racism in Australia wolli, but did you read the links? I just get pissed off with the characterisation of the whole nation as being racist.

No, I didn't read the links. I didn't bother - I've seen the arguments before. I live with the director of the artifact digitisation project at the Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies (AIATSIS). He's worked closely with indigenous groups and elders, and trust me, there's still a lot of racism. But what Zep says is pretty much correct.

 

[Zep]

When our aboriginals have a better life expectancy that Nigerians we might reasonably expect something other than condemnation. "The worst in the world, but improving!" is not exactly a title to be proud of.

But which Nigerians are we comparing them to? The ones living in (relative) modernity in in Lagos? Or the ones in drought-stricken areas further north?

And are we looking at the situation using the native Australians in the Tanami Desert, or in The Block in Redfern?

Or are they just doing an average somehow?

As was the life of every other hunter/gatherer culture, yet they are doing better than the Australian aboriginals.

Who are "they"? Nigerians? If so, see above.

It's possible that our current policies are the least worst possible way forward, but given the lack of "political will" (or to put it bluntly, sense of moral obligation) to do much about the issue I'm skeptical.

Agreed. It's been a backwater issue since 1975, really.

We could get more doctors, more teachers, more facilities and more social workers on to the problem, if the sense of moral obligation was there. It simply isn't.

BIG assumption there: That ALL native Australians WANT the white fella facilities - social workers, teachers, facilities, etc. I think it's just as patronising to think that way as it was for implementing the Stolen Generation solution.

I suggest it may be better if someone actually sits down and talks with them to see what they actually want, and how they want to achieve it.

 

[arthwollipot]

When our aboriginals have a better life expectancy that Nigerians we might reasonably expect something other than condemnation. "The worst in the world, but improving!" is not exactly a title to be proud of.

Better than worst in the world and not improving. I agree, it's nothing to be proud of. But there are people working to make it better, and that's something.

 

[The Fool]

Better than worst in the world and not improving. I agree, it's nothing to be proud of. But there are people working to make it better, and that's something.

No No NOOOO!!!!!
you are supposed to simply deny it.

remember...

"Part of it is that there is a denial of the fact that Australia has done racist things in the past"

come on get with the program, start behaving like wildy says we do.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

BIG assumption there: That ALL native Australians WANT the white fella facilities - social workers, teachers, facilities, etc. I think it's just as patronising to think that way as it was for implementing the Stolen Generation solution.

I suggest it may be better if someone actually sits down and talks with them to see what they actually want, and how they want to achieve it.

How long do you think we should keep trying that, if it doesn't lead to measurable results?

 

[Zep]

No, the Arabs, Africans and Muslims take that prize.

The Swedes are not immune either:Stockholm Bloodbath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_Bloodbath

 

[Zep]

How long do you think we should keep trying that, if it doesn't lead to measurable results?

Maybe we should START doing it first, and see if it does.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

No aborigines that I have ever met want to return to that existence. They want to move forward too, but here's the thing: They want to manage it themselves at they own pace and using their own methods, with dignity.

Not quite Zep
In many of the remote communities they do want it managed by 'outsiders', but to a point. The stories of 'standover' type tactics, the wholesale 'thieving' of income of others by the strongest and most dominant in the community means that (say) women and children have very few rights and go without. Not to mention the many other abuses that can and do occur. Drugs and alcohol use have been rife on these outposts and caused massive problems.

It is not an underlying racism in Australia today (that the OP is suggesting) that causes these issues, it is far broader than that and dates back decades; to suggest it is racism is simply an ignorant reaction based on limited knowledge of a very difficult and sensitive situation.

I agree that some of 'white Australia's' historical efforts were poor and misplaced, others in more recent times have missed the mark also. But many (I would go nearly so far as to say all) policies have been made by well intentioned individuals with the best interests of our indigenous foremost in their minds.

why so offended?

i wanted to form an oppinion, but based on the reactions from Australians here, i have no made my oppinion.

you are Racist and cant talk about it.

It's offensive to the vast majority of Australians who are not racist and it is also offensive to the indigenous of Australia.

You had already formed an opinion, and your comments also proved they were baseless.

You are a flog who can't recognise his own ignorance.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Just as a starting place.

Which bits do you want to discuss?
What is your opinion on it/them?
Why do you have these opinions?
And what do you think should occur?

Which part?

Let's talk when you
a/. Have an opinion.
b/. Have a basis for that opinion and
c/. Have some specifics you would like to discuss.

Same goes for the rest of those who think they would like to 'play'.

In the meantime, not a single specific from the flogs abroad who think they have even the vaguest understanding on the issue.