Racial Bias Among Children

[Skeptical Greg]

Yes, except the condoning part .. That's where it becomes subjective..

I don't think most kids who are being taught about safe sex, didn't already have some ideas about how it works ..

Kids from the right environment, can be pretty ignorant when it comes to racial prejudice, and not give it much thought until they are made aware there is a problem ..

 

[Skeptical Greg]

P.S.
If I didn't make it clear before; I don't believe ( In the US anyway ) that the right environment happens very often, but I don't believe diversity appreciation education ( .. and the like ) is very effective in reducing prejudices where they already exist, and may create them where they didn't..

 

[quarky]

I'm now channeling Oprah Winfrey, if anyone has anything they'd like to ask her.


(On topic only, please.)

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Doesn't she have to be dead for you to do that ?

 

[cienaños]

P.S.
If I didn't make it clear before; I don't believe ( In the US anyway ) that the right environment happens very often, but I don't believe diversity appreciation education ( .. and the like ) is very effective in reducing prejudices where they already exist, and may create them where they didn't..

No.

I understand there are programs out there that [loosely] fit that description, but for the purposes of this thread, that is not what I am arguing.

It's essential to mark this distinction. This bears repeating. It is essential to mark this distinction.

This:
Cold anthropology and biological evolution from a global perspective.

Not this:
diversity appreciation education

 

[Skeptical Greg]

..

This:
Cold anthropology and biological evolution from a global perspective.

Can you point me toward a program with this theme, that is aimed at primary school children with the goal of teaching racial tolerance ?

That said, I have been addressing your OP:

...and if we also agree that to unlearn racial prejudice [in adults] is less realistic than to learn racial tolerance [in children], should we not, as a society [taxpayers], demand that public education bend toward the latter?

 

[cienaños]

Can you point me toward a program with this theme, that is aimed at primary school children with the goal of teaching racial tolerance?

Here's what I can gather...

1.There was a push in the mid-20th century for a multicultural, anthropological curriculum designed for 10-12 yr olds.
2. Cold War paranoia and extreme nationalism wiped away any chance it had.
3. At present, no one appears to be pushing for it in the States. [see Texas]

Here's a brief description from that 40 year old failed push:

Man: A Course of Study

"One of the most publicized controversies in the United States was triggered by the curriculum "Man: A Course of Study" (MACOS) during the 1960s. Developed with a National Science Foundation grant, the mixed media curriculum was designed to stimulate the learner's curiosity, promote scientific literacy, and help children learn to think like social scientists. Almost immediately, the program was at the center of a backlash from the "Back to Basics Movement." Central to the MACOS controversy was its focus on inquiry and discovery rather than content. Among other things, critics charged that students were not developing basic skills, that the curriculum promoted cultural relativism, and that it was a threat to democracy. Not surprisingly, the curriculum was eventually phased out."

...And this....

Debates surrounding culture continue in the teaching of history, geography, ethnic studies, and multicultural education. While many educators support a cultural relativist position, many others argue that "the mission of public schools is to instill in children our shared, not our separate, cultures" (Ravitch, p. 8). These "culture wars" (as termed by Nash, Crabtree, and Dunn) have resulted in a rich, intellectual, and academic debate that will hopefully illuminate the field. Global education and international studies have also been criticized for their emphases on issues and events outside the United States' borders. Critics charge that global studies advance cultural relativism, minimize patriotism, and emphasize skills at the expense of content. Advocates point out, however, that national borders are becoming less relevant in the face of technology, international politics, and environmental issues.

 

[MikeMangum]

Kids from the right environment, can be pretty ignorant when it comes to racial prejudice, and not give it much thought until they are made aware there is a problem ..

And frankly, that's the type of environment we would want to foster: one where kids are completely ignorant of any racial prejudice...because it never happens. Call me an idealist.

 

[Rairun]

I don't think ignorance of racial prejudice is a good thing. The fact is that prejudice exists, and being ignorant of it probably only makes it worse. I have a couple of black friends (that's not how I usually refer to them), but they are not my token black friends. They are just my friends. But it would be stupid not to realize that they are seen differently because of their skin color, and that some of them (though not all) grew up in a different culture.

As an immigrant, I don't want people to be blind to the fact I'm not British. I don't want my nationality to be seen as a defining trait (I don't even have a strong identification with it, to be honest), but I don't want it to disappear either. For better or for worse, it's part of who I am.

On a side note, I grew up completely unaware that redheads suffered from any kind of prejudice. There aren't many of them where I lived, and I think they were basically treated like a blond person would be. When I was about 22, I watched the "Ginger Kids" South Park episode, and I thought it was great because it showed how senseless racism is. I thought they had picked a random trait no one had anything against (red hair) to show how stupid real discrimination against other traits is. I was quite bemused when I found out about the whole ginger discrimination issue. It sounded completely alien to me.

 

[slingblade]

You seem to be agreeing with me without realizing it ..

The ideas may not exist for a particular child, until they are brought to the child's attention in a teaching environment ..

i.e. The child is essentially free of prejudice until they are taught that such prejudices exist..

I'm not sure that's necessarily true, though.

It may be true that children are free of specific ideologies until exposed to them, but I can't agree that we enter the world as blank slates.

We discussed this in the college course I took on Human Growth and Development, and I believe the "blank slate" notion was pretty well debunked. We come equipped with all sorts of hard-wired behaviors which have generally helped our species to prosper, and so have been retained.

This does not mean that racism, per se, is innate. But a proclivity to notice and reject perceived differences probably is. When you attach the societal and pseudo-biological concepts that we've created to those hard-wired proclivities, then you get something rather ugly and unnecessary.

ETA: I just remembered something from another college course I took that specifically addressed racism. To paraphrase:

That which you are striving for, Greg--the society in which skin color and its current attendant baggage is largely ignored as unimportant--is not what will end racism. It's the result of racism having ended. You can't force the ending as a means of getting to the ending. A lot of other things must be accomplished first, in order to get to that point.

 

[quarky]

Doesn't she have to be dead for you to do that ?

Her fluctuating weight counts as a surrogate death.
(She says " Hi, Greg".)

 

[quarky]

Excuse me, good people.

I don't like the idea of this decent thread ending with quarky's pointless non-sense.

So I toss this out, in a more serious vein:

Skin color is becoming over-ruled, gradually, by clothing color.
Not many people go naked anymore. Most of what you see when encountering a stranger on a busy street in a mega-city of the new world, is clothing.

Even the up-town crowd; fedora tipped down; shades; scarf...mostly clothing.

The clothing tells the tale. You in, or out?
Could be worse than racism, even.

 

[Gazpacho]

Interesting experiment, but I do think it might be useful to repeat it with better blinding. When the experimenter can see the choices right there on the table, it's hard to rule out involuntary cues to the children by a darting of the eyes.

I wonder if people who are blind from birth, can grasp the concept of racism ..

Have you ever guessed someone's race over the phone?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I have made assumptions, and have been wrong as often as not..

 

[iknownothing]

This was amazingly refreshing to me, because, with all the descriptions my daughter used to describe her new friend, "dark-skinned" never even made the cut.

I've got one for you. My four year old recently pointed at a black lady (on the TV, thankfully, not in real life) who was playing a nurse and said something about the "white lady." Turned out he called her that because she was wearing white. He must have heard people talking like that, and figured they were talking about clothes.

He's not blind, so I'm sure he's aware of different skin color; it just hasn't occurred to him yet that it's what matters.

More on topic...I think "programs" designed to teach tolerance are not useful. The worst way to teach a kid something is to design a special program where an adult lectures them. More useful would be programs to teach educators how to promote more tolerant environments in schools. And, generally, letting time and cultural progress do its work.

 

[Steve]

When I was about 22, I watched the "Ginger Kids" South Park episode, and I thought it was great because it showed how senseless racism is. I thought they had picked a random trait no one had anything against (red hair) to show how stupid real discrimination against other traits is. I was quite bemused when I found out about the whole ginger discrimination issue. It sounded completely alien to me.

????..... I have spent my entire 56 years as a red-head, although my head is now shaved and my red beard is mostly grey. If I have ever encountered any discrimination because of my hair colour I must have been completely oblivious to it. I have never heard of this before!

 

[quarky]

I've got one for you. My four year old recently pointed at a black lady (on the TV, thankfully, not in real life) who was playing a nurse and said something about the "white lady." Turned out he called her that because she was wearing white. He must have heard people talking like that, and figured they were talking about clothes.

He's not blind, so I'm sure he's aware of different skin color; it just hasn't occurred to him yet that it's what matters.

More on topic...I think "programs" designed to teach tolerance are not useful. The worst way to teach a kid something is to design a special program where an adult lectures them. More useful would be programs to teach educators how to promote more tolerant environments in schools. And, generally, letting time and cultural progress do its work.

I find that kids and dogs and birds and frogs are all pretty sharp about one thing:

The accumulation of sensory input regarding exterior forces that conspire against your own wishes.

Tolerance needn't be taught so much to kids. Everyone has their own, inner hip place.

The shoving down the throatness-of-this-hipness is what creates evil, in a nutshell.

You hear the word.
You ain't it.
You be bad
Maybe even evil.
Who gives a crap now; all is lost anyway.

The best possible thing we can do now, imho, is to play with our kids. Expose them to all you can without endangering them.

Oh dear.

Am I in the wrong thread again?

 

[cienaños]

More on topic...I think "programs" designed to teach tolerance are not useful. The worst way to teach a kid something is to design a special program where an adult lectures them. More useful would be programs to teach educators how to promote more tolerant environments in schools. And, generally, letting time and cultural progress do its work.

Looking at my original phrasing I suppose I did this to myself. I could have defined more specifically what these "programs" might be. Here's me trying to clean up after myself:

This:
Cold anthropology and biological evolution from a global perspective.

Not this:
diversity appreciation education

The idea is to simplify and integrate anthropological and biological evolution data from a global perspective into the already present social, science, and history studies that exist in the upper primary grade levels.

In other words, although the target is racial tolerance, the trajectory is simply an updated lesson plan.

I don't think ignorance of racial prejudice is a good thing. The fact is that prejudice exists, and being ignorant of it probably only makes it worse. I have a couple of black friends (that's not how I usually refer to them), but they are not my token black friends. They are just my friends. But it would be stupid not to realize that they are seen differently because of their skin color, and that some of them (though not all) grew up in a different culture.

As an immigrant, I don't want people to be blind to the fact I'm not British. I don't want my nationality to be seen as a defining trait (I don't even have a strong identification with it, to be honest), but I don't want it to disappear either. For better or for worse, it's part of who I am.

Agreed.

[...]That which you are striving for, Greg--the society in which skin color and its current attendant baggage is largely ignored as unimportant--is not what will end racism. It's the result of racism having ended. You can't force the ending as a means of getting to the ending. A lot of other things must be accomplished first, in order to get to that point.

I think this speaks directly to the heart of our arrested [U.S. public] education system. There's a disconnect between the edified and the untrained that bends toward frustration and defeat. The 'edified teachers' lack the means needed to cut through the apathy. The 'edified students' lack the wherewithal to regard their peers' scholastic progress as exigent. Then you have the 'untrained' teachers and students doing only the bare minimum just to get by. Everyone loses.

More on topic...I think "programs" designed to teach tolerance are not useful. The worst way to teach a kid something is to design a special program where an adult lectures them. More useful would be programs to teach educators how to promote more tolerant environments in schools. And, generally, letting time and cultural progress do its work.

Well put. I would argue this to be a key jumping off point.

 

[Flo]

Contrary to popular belief, children are not color blind. They may notice color less than adults do and may not have been fully taught and conditioned to discriminate on the basis of color but they do notice it. Either in a positive way or negative way. They still respond to people of their own race and differentiate between people of other races.

Here's an anecdote about it. I'm acquainted with an elderly Jamaican woman who is an educator and anthropologist. She was shopping one day and saw a white woman with a beautiful little Ethiopian boy. She stopped to talk to them and found out that the woman and her female lover had adopted him from Africa as a baby. As the adopted mother and the Jamaican woman were talking, the little boy suddenly pointed to the Jamaican woman and said to his mother "Mommy, mommy, look, look, this lady is brown just like me! Can she come to our house?!".

When you're the only different child in a given environment, you tend to notice anyone who looks like you. It is quite reassuring to know you're not alone, an anomaly, it makes you feel you actually belong, that you have a right to be where you are, even though you're not a victim of racism or discrimination. I've been the only "black" child in my neighborhood and in all the schools until I was about 16, and it sucks mightily to always stand up in a crowd, even if you can't really complain of negative consequences ...