Questions for Jesus-Freak

What does this mean exactly?
Many if not most of us don't blindly accept claims. I just challenged an atheist's claim that atheists can be truly good and Christians can't. That claim invites skepticism even from those of us who are atheists.

To be a skeptic you must be?
Willing to question world views and commonly held beliefs. Avoid believing based on intution. Question beliefs that are simply intuitive. To name but a few.
 
What does this mean exactly?
Wriggle room?
To be a skeptic you must be?

Doubtful. Mr. Randi said at TAM that he wanted (or had?) a t-shirt that read "I doubt that."

But the danger now is that we'll get into the mental masturbation that goes along with every statement of definition. Oh, what the hell; I was feeling stressed anyway and a good wank fixes that every time.

No, anticipating a question, I do not doubt everything, all the time, no matter what evidence or proof is presented to me. I can be convinced. However, I put my concrete away, and now reserve the right to change my mind when and if presented with new info that alters my previous conclusion.

I just try to accept that even with all I know, I don't know everything, and even what I know can change, and sometimes should change.

I no longer allow myself to blindly accept what I'm told. I don't swallow anymore, and boy is Ric unhappy. But there it is.


Okay, now let the name-calling, teasing, arguing, and general unpleasantness begin.
 
I'm probably too sensitive. But for some Christians Jesus is seen as a real and caring being with whom they have a personal relationship. If someone's mother or brother had suffered through something terribly painful, I wouldn't think that was a subject for a joke or insult.
Just because they see him as a real being, doesn't mean that everyone does. So if I or n3j0 (is that better?) think he's just a mythological being, he's fodder for humor just like any other fictional character. Much different from someone's mother or brother.
 
Just because they see him as a real being, doesn't mean that everyone does. So if I or n3j0 (is that better?) think he's just a mythological being, he's fodder for humor just like any other fictional character. Much different from someone's mother or brother.


I find it hard to compare someone who lived thousands of years ago (even to a christian) the same as someone who is alive and breathing and in your family. when someone you are close to is in pain everyone they love lives it every day, it hurts everyone. I always imagined the effect of jesus upon believers to be the opposite.

I mean most people dont find the life of brain to be so terribly offensive, despite a bunch of people being tortured and singing 'always look on the brighter side of life'. its a joke about the same event.
 
It's a joke about torture, and in particular it's a joke about the torture of a person whom some people here feel close to. I think it is tasteless and unnecessarily rude.
Christians use the torture and execution device that killed their god as a symbol, and "nails3jesus0" is tasteless and rude...?

If Christians find torture offensive, they should probably consider a different symbol. Then again: I'm not sure I've seen anything in the Bible that condemns torture outright, which might explain a great deal of history of the Church.

It's odd that a religion that prides itself on being moral (to the point that 'atheists can't be moral') doesn't seem to teach any concept like 'causing pain to other people is wrong'. Just pi$$ing off the Big Guy in the Sky is wrong.
 
Some of the things that you say are insulting, I turn my check once and twice but the third time well then, there a time to fight and a time to win.

One way to judge Christianity is by seeing how closely its adherents follow the instructions.

I see that you are willing to follow the words of Christ as many as two times before ignoring them because you are not getting the desired result. So much for that seven-times-seventy stuff.
 
I find it hard to compare someone who lived thousands of years ago (even to a christian) the same as someone who is alive and breathing and in your family. when someone you are close to is in pain everyone they love lives it every day, it hurts everyone. I always imagined the effect of jesus upon believers to be the opposite.

I mean most people dont find the life of brain to be so terribly offensive, despite a bunch of people being tortured and singing 'always look on the brighter side of life'. its a joke about the same event.
Well it probably is just me then. I love Monty Python but not torture sketches. Probably I was scarred for life by stupid Sunday school classes talking about the crucifixion when I was too young.
nails3jesus0, I would have guessed you picked the login ID because it was edgy humor. If you go for edgy humor then it seems to me you're assuming that someone might not think it is funny. Isn't that an underlying part of that kind of joke? But it isn't a big deal. You get to use whatever ID you like (subject to the JREF), I get to think whatever I like about it. I get to post whatever I like about it. No one has to agree. I don't like the ID, but also I can see that it's a minor issue.

It's odd that a religion that prides itself on being moral (to the point that 'atheists can't be moral') doesn't seem to teach any concept like 'causing pain to other people is wrong'. Just pi$$ing off the Big Guy in the Sky is wrong.
I think that is covered under the golden rule.

---------------------------------------------

What really interests me in these threads is why JF and fundamentalists in general are so closed-minded about evolution.
 
Last edited:
So here's a question, what piece of information, what evidence, what proof would it take to convince you jf that evolution is the best theory to describe "the origin of the species"?
 
What really interests me in these threads is why JF and fundamentalists in general are so closed-minded about evolution.

They've staked everything, or what they perceive to be everything, on their faith that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Once that step is made, nothing at all can be admitted that contradicts it. Some people manage to reconcile even very strong biblical faith with the idea that the book contains metaphor, and that its inerrant authority in spiritual matters was never meant to supplant scientific inquiry, or even that there is some mysterious way that both science and scripture will eventually coincide, making it possible to accept both at least tentatively, and await the unifying outcome. It seems that JF is unprepared for even this degree of flexibility, and his only option, however he dresses it up in the finery of tendentious pseudo-science, is to reject science itself. I will give JF the benefit of the doubt, and say that he is deceived, but I will not give the vociferous proponents of creationism on whom he relies that benefit. They are liars, desperate to discredit science at any price, including the violation of the most fundamental principles of honesty that they should be representing.

His signature line pretty well sums up the problem. Uncomfortable with the almost inevitable charge of rejecting science in principle and practice in favor of wilful ignorance, the only alternative is to redefine science to mean something else. Thus, he and the ratbag evangelists he seems to rely on for ammunition are not satisfied to say "evolution is bad science," but "evolutionists are not scientists at all." He feels free to accuse proponents of natural selection as liars, but bristles when the charge is returned.

JF's take on science really all boils down to this:

Science does not deliver perfect answers that accord with the scripture, therefore it is not science. Faith delivers perfect answers that accord with the scripture, therefore we will now call faith "science."
 
flume
I'm probably too sensitive. But for some Christians Jesus is seen as a real and caring being with whom they have a personal relationship.
You do bring up an interesting point. I’ve always wondered how people can claim to have a personal relationship with someone with whom they’ve never meet or interacted. The closet parallel I’ve ever found would be some celebrity stalker.

Ossai
 
You do bring up an interesting point. I’ve always wondered how people can claim to have a personal relationship with someone with whom they’ve never meet or interacted. The closet parallel I’ve ever found would be some celebrity stalker.

Good point, there.
 
Are we still allowed to ask questions in this thread, because I have one (well, technically since this is a question, two)?

Are we all gods?
 
I’ve always wondered how people can claim to have a personal relationship with someone with whom they’ve never meet or interacted.
I first began to question religion when a friend in 8th grade started going on about her personal relationship with Jesus and how you weren't saved without that. I knew Jesus wasn't talking to me in my heart, and at first I worried about it. The more I worried, the more I thought, and the more I thought about it, the more I doubted the whole thing.
 
I knew Jesus wasn't talking to me in my heart, and at first I worried about it.
Jesus used to talk to me in my heart. Now I take a blood thinner and heart medication. It's all better.
 
Posted by bignickel
It's odd that a religion that prides itself on being moral (to the point that 'atheists can't be moral') doesn't seem to teach any concept like 'causing pain to other people is wrong'. Just pi$$ing off the Big Guy in the Sky is wrong.

I think that is covered under the golden rule.

Nope. I would have thought so to, but as the Inquisition showed us:
"If I was a heathen Pagan, I would want someone to do everything possible to make me see the light and convert to Christianity. Therefore: torturing others to do the same to them is OK."
Throw in 'saving people from a life of hell', and you have priests baptizing babies before bashing their heads in. Lovely.

I think I should invent a new axiom: There is no axiom, no matter how cleverly and tightly written, that can not be twisted to condone any behavior under the sun. (Including this one)
 

Back
Top Bottom