MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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What's wrong with you own Google?Kumar said:
OK, here's some:
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/38/4/884
http://www.jaapa.com/be_core/content/journals/j/data/2004/0101/dm2therapy.html
http://nursing.advanceweb.com/common/Editorial/Editorial.aspx?CC=8643
http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1997/02_97/skyler.htm
http://annals.edu.sg/cpdNov02b.html
http://www.harcourt-international.com/e-books/pdf/967.pdf
There's more, but this should keep you busy for a while
.Hans
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Kumar said:
Here you go;
Medical references
You're very good at searching the Internet so you'll fnd it easy.
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Kumar said:
What do you mean by "checked"? Please further clarify.
In the meantime, I told you before - a long time ago - that you can make fat diabetics on insulin skinnier by adjusting their insulin dose downward and getting them to avoid excess dietary sugars and carbohydrates. If you get too much insulin without tight diabetic control, you will get fat.
-TT
That is ok, but I think there can be a limit of getting fat from extra sugar & carbs with extra insulin. Previously, I discussed somewhere that if IR for getting extra fat can also be there, but no one coul tell it properly. Can you tell if IR for getting fat (may be protiensalso) is there or not?ThirdTwin said:
But here, I just want to be sure that if excess insulin in blood is not a cause of getting IR condition? It looks to me that clinical trials by reducung/discontinuing diabetic medicines in diabetic/IR patients are not yet done in view of anticipation/thinking of adversities. But I think it may mean something.
Kumar said:
This is my translation of what you are trying to express:
"I understand that, but I think there is a limit to how much fatty tissue can be gained by consuming extra sugar & carbs and taking excess insulin. Somewhere in a previous thread, I asked whether insulin resistance can result from gaining this extra fatty tissue, but no one could explain to me in a way that I could understand. Can you tell me if gaining extra fatty tissue (or perhaps protein[?-muscle] also) results in insulin resistance?"
If that is your question, Kumar, the answer is: no. Insulin resistance (as a facet of type-2 diabetes mellitus and/or the "metabolic syndrome") is a mult-faceted problem that doesn't have a single identifiable thing you can say, "AHA! That's what causes it!" But, we do know that over-eating, especially continuous high-glycemic load, in those predisposed to it will result in the condition. It involves a hyper insulin response at first, and then eventually beta-cell burn-out. Getting fat is the result of the process, not the cause.
Kumar said:
You can't discontinue/reduce medicines in patients who are not dietarily compliant, especially in DM2. Period. One goes with the other. You have to reduce intake of foods that stimulate a physiologic insulin response in addition to exercising to stimulate muscles usage which, without getting any more complicated, reduces insulin resistance.
-TT
TT,
Sorry, antually I was willing to know that: whether there is any condition when carbs & sugar can't be converted in to fats inspite of extra insulin is present in blood? We call IR to sugar becuse we can't untilize sugar. Similarily, when er can't convert excess sugar into fats (if possible), we can consider this condition as IR to fats. I think when it happens then excess sugar is removed in urine.
Secondaly, Since, I feel that excess insulin(natural or induced) in blood can be a cause of getting IR condition somewhat alike indigetion of insulin. It can only be checked by reducing insulin in blood. Diet & excercise can also lead to reduction in insulin levels indirectly due to less secretion & more utilization. I therfore, want to know: if clinical trials are done 'to ckeck the possibilties of getting the insulin resistance by excess insulin(natural or/and induced) in blood' by reducing or discontinuing the diabetic medications & injected insulin or not? If done that I want some referances of these clinical trials done.
Sorry, antually I was willing to know that: whether there is any condition when carbs & sugar can't be converted in to fats inspite of extra insulin is present in blood? We call IR to sugar becuse we can't untilize sugar. Similarily, when er can't convert excess sugar into fats (if possible), we can consider this condition as IR to fats. I think when it happens then excess sugar is removed in urine.
Secondaly, Since, I feel that excess insulin(natural or induced) in blood can be a cause of getting IR condition somewhat alike indigetion of insulin. It can only be checked by reducing insulin in blood. Diet & excercise can also lead to reduction in insulin levels indirectly due to less secretion & more utilization. I therfore, want to know: if clinical trials are done 'to ckeck the possibilties of getting the insulin resistance by excess insulin(natural or/and induced) in blood' by reducing or discontinuing the diabetic medications & injected insulin or not? If done that I want some referances of these clinical trials done.
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Kumar said:
It's been answered several times, but since the problem of understanding seesm so profound let's try one more time.
The raised blood insulin in Type 2 diabetes is like shouting at a deaf person. As the person gets deafer you need to shout louder to get them to hear. The raised voice did not cause the deafness, the subsequently greater shouting does not make the deafness get worse it's just what has to be done to get the deaf person to hear what you are saying.
In consideration of above information , How it is proper to advice oral hypoglymic medicines or injected insulin to patients with insulin resistance? These patients already have excess insulin in blood, so how adding more insulin to blood can be proper? Will it not cause complications as related to "hyperinsulinemia"? Pls compare complications related to "hyperinsulinemia" & to metabolic syndrome X.
Mr.Hans,
I listen proper voices not louder ones.
The NIH generally recommends diet and exercise as the best way of preventing and/or combatting insulin resistance. The short answer to your question is that if your pancreas is not producing enough insulin due to insulin resistance then additional insulin but especially oral anti-diabetes drugs can be tried. However, the following advice should be taken seriously by any Type II insulin resistant diabetic. In fact insulin resistance is the cause of Type II diabetes so it is manifested before symptoms of diabetes become apparent even if it is not initially recognized as such.
There are two types of medications that are used to improve response to insulin but there are no drugs officially approved by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration for this purpose. Research continues.
For the complete article and more information visit:
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/
I hope this helps. I think that reviewing this link in detail, which has been given to you previously, may help you to understand the nature of the problem as well as the recommendations for helping to deal with it. Keep in mind that oral anti-diabetes agents are NOT insulin. Insulin is a peptide that cannot be swallowed orally as it would not be effective after being metabolized by the digestive process. Insulin can only be injected.
Therefore you should think of oral agents as adjuncts or subtitutes for insulin in insulin resistant Type II diabetes.
There are two types of medications that are used to improve response to insulin but there are no drugs officially approved by the U.S. Food & Drug Administration for this purpose. Research continues.
For the complete article and more information visit:
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/
I hope this helps. I think that reviewing this link in detail, which has been given to you previously, may help you to understand the nature of the problem as well as the recommendations for helping to deal with it. Keep in mind that oral anti-diabetes agents are NOT insulin. Insulin is a peptide that cannot be swallowed orally as it would not be effective after being metabolized by the digestive process. Insulin can only be injected.
Therefore you should think of oral agents as adjuncts or subtitutes for insulin in insulin resistant Type II diabetes.
materia3,
Thanks for reply. Sorry but it didn't awnser my question.
"Many people with insulin resistance have high levels of blood glucose and high levels of insulin circulating in their blood at the same time."
I want to know tht when there is high levels of insulin circulating in their blood with insulin resistance, why those patiens are prescribed oral medicines for secreting more insulin or injectable insulin?
New question;
Is there any relation of calcium with insulin secretion, insulin resistance and BG levels?
Thanks for reply. Sorry but it didn't awnser my question.
"Many people with insulin resistance have high levels of blood glucose and high levels of insulin circulating in their blood at the same time."
I want to know tht when there is high levels of insulin circulating in their blood with insulin resistance, why those patiens are prescribed oral medicines for secreting more insulin or injectable insulin?
New question;
Is there any relation of calcium with insulin secretion, insulin resistance and BG levels?
The answer to your question is very simple and was, indeed, given above. The answer to your question does not depend on the precondition you state which involves "high levels" of insulin coupled with elevated glucose levels, it involves the best facts and available knowledge governing this treatment.
First of all, there is NO direct U.S. FDA approved treatment in terms of a drug and that includes insulin, for insulin resistant type II diabetes. This is what the NIH website says and this is what I emphasized. Treatment is a matter of management strategies.
The recommended treatment is diet and exercise which, if taken seriously, will alleviate the problem. It has worked in every case of insulin resistance I have ever seen.
The use of oral drugs (not insulin) to control glucose levels in insulin resistant individuals do sometimes work BUT is a stop gap or short term measure. Some of these oral agents DO NOT work by increasing insulin production making your predcondition of high levels, etc moot. They work by an entirely different mechanism and you seem to think that they all work by increasing insulin production. Not true. Agents that increase insulin production are given because even though insulin levels are high, glucose levels are much higher than the high insulin levels available to metabolize the glucose. Hence additional supplemental insulin may be warranted in the short term. Insulin is administered in doses called International Units (not in a %conc as you seemed to think above) and more of them processes more glucose and could even result in a defciency of glucose.
http://www.rnceus.com/dmeds/oral.htm
You are re-quoting one operational definition of insulin resistance.
But I hope the above answers your question on a practical level including a level which you could recommend to yourself, your family or friends who may've been told they have insulin resistance. This is a serious problem, difficult to control but if they diet, normalize weight and exercise it will be cured.
Additional insulin is not the best way of treating this. As stated above it could result in hypoglycemia. Treating this requires frequent checks of blood glucose levels which is why the widespread availability of home test kits make controlling glucose levels far easier than before they were available. You have to understand that insulin is recommended for short term, stop-gap treatment in patients with dangerously high levels of circulating blood glucose levels, sometimes in patients close to diabetic crisis,
diabetic keto-acidosis and coma and who have already been brought into the hospital.
Regarding your question of the relationship of calcium to insulin secretion, the answer is yes there appears to be a relationship under certain defined circumstances. There are both calcium dependent and calcium independent pathways secreting insulin. The evidence is inconclusive that calcium would reverse insulin resistance in type II diabetics whose problem is morbid obesity and poor diet to begin with. There is absolutely no evidence that making supplemental calcium available to insulin resistant diabetics would in any way solve their problem if this is what you are thinking. Morbidly obese individuals generally get plenty of calcium in all the meat, cheese white bread, eggs and other dairy products they consume as part of their lifestyle and it help them not one bit where insulin resistance is concerned. You would be amazed how much dietary calcium laden foods such people consume daily.
http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/pancreas/insulin.html
You will enjoy reading the above website on this subject.
First of all, there is NO direct U.S. FDA approved treatment in terms of a drug and that includes insulin, for insulin resistant type II diabetes. This is what the NIH website says and this is what I emphasized. Treatment is a matter of management strategies.
The recommended treatment is diet and exercise which, if taken seriously, will alleviate the problem. It has worked in every case of insulin resistance I have ever seen.
The use of oral drugs (not insulin) to control glucose levels in insulin resistant individuals do sometimes work BUT is a stop gap or short term measure. Some of these oral agents DO NOT work by increasing insulin production making your predcondition of high levels, etc moot. They work by an entirely different mechanism and you seem to think that they all work by increasing insulin production. Not true. Agents that increase insulin production are given because even though insulin levels are high, glucose levels are much higher than the high insulin levels available to metabolize the glucose. Hence additional supplemental insulin may be warranted in the short term. Insulin is administered in doses called International Units (not in a %conc as you seemed to think above) and more of them processes more glucose and could even result in a defciency of glucose.
http://www.rnceus.com/dmeds/oral.htm
You are re-quoting one operational definition of insulin resistance.
But I hope the above answers your question on a practical level including a level which you could recommend to yourself, your family or friends who may've been told they have insulin resistance. This is a serious problem, difficult to control but if they diet, normalize weight and exercise it will be cured.
Additional insulin is not the best way of treating this. As stated above it could result in hypoglycemia. Treating this requires frequent checks of blood glucose levels which is why the widespread availability of home test kits make controlling glucose levels far easier than before they were available. You have to understand that insulin is recommended for short term, stop-gap treatment in patients with dangerously high levels of circulating blood glucose levels, sometimes in patients close to diabetic crisis,
diabetic keto-acidosis and coma and who have already been brought into the hospital.
Regarding your question of the relationship of calcium to insulin secretion, the answer is yes there appears to be a relationship under certain defined circumstances. There are both calcium dependent and calcium independent pathways secreting insulin. The evidence is inconclusive that calcium would reverse insulin resistance in type II diabetics whose problem is morbid obesity and poor diet to begin with. There is absolutely no evidence that making supplemental calcium available to insulin resistant diabetics would in any way solve their problem if this is what you are thinking. Morbidly obese individuals generally get plenty of calcium in all the meat, cheese white bread, eggs and other dairy products they consume as part of their lifestyle and it help them not one bit where insulin resistance is concerned. You would be amazed how much dietary calcium laden foods such people consume daily.
http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/pancreas/insulin.html
You will enjoy reading the above website on this subject.