Questions about Acid/base, Oxygen Imbalances

I think this says it all:

Kumar said:
*snip*

Terry, it is commonly understood that insulin/excess insulin is the reason of IR. Can't it be possible that if available Oxygen is defficient or alkaline pH, insulin resistance takes place? Modern lifestyle & environment is said to be a cause of epidemic type spread of diabetes, hypertension etc. in modern times, which probably can be due to excess gastric acid secretion & lower oxygen intake(shallow breathing) due to polluted environment?
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After it has been painstakingly explained to Kumar at least seven times why excess insulin cannot be the cause of insulin resistance, he blithely claims that it is commonly understood that it is.

.....And continues to spew nonsense. A new Kumar theory(tm) is born: Insulin resistance is due to lack of oxygen which comes from excess gastric acid and shallow breathing due to pollution.

:dl:

Impervious to logic, impervious to sense, impervious to information, Kumar goes on like a broken record :rolleyes:.

At least we know the reason for this particular strain of nonsense: Kumar is type 2 diabetic. He is unable to change his unhealthy lifestyle and is desperately trying to dream up something that can make him believe he does not need to.

Kumar: Get your fat arse out of that chair and exercise, cut the snacks and other unhealthy things, loose 40 pounds, and you will be MUCH better.

Happy new year.

Hans
 
Hans, I think he just likes being an idiot. It saves him so much energy by not thinking.
 
Kumar said:
Rolfe, we are talking bit differantly. You can also contribute. I want to know some other effects as Bhor effects related to acid/base, fluid & Oxygen balances/imbalances.
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I have done all the contributing I'm going to. I typed out a lot of biochemistry for you in previous threads, looked things up in books and copied relevant passages, explained lactate metabolism and several other things. For my pains, you ignored everything I told you, refused even to consider that I and others were trying to tell you the truth, and finally abused and insulted me.

Until you really want to learn the truth, rather than want to find "proof" for the crazy notions you have, I'm a spectator.

Kumar, this is about truth and reality. Either try to want that, or go somewhere else.

Rolfe.
 
Mr. Hans, Rolfe,zep,

Thank for your new year gifts.

materia3,

Pls tell me something about sulphur & sulphur containing medicines, insulin & protiens.

Something is mentioned at following link:-

Sulfur, an acid-forming, non-metallic element ...Although sulfur might not be an essential mineral, it is an essential element of protein, biotin as well as vitamin B1. It is part of the chemical structure of the amino acids methionine, cysteine, taurine and glutathione. It is further needed in the synthesis of collagen, which is needed for good skin integrity.
http://www.anyvitamins.com/sulfur-info.htm
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I can't say whether following is true scientifically:-

All body cells contain sulfur-containing compounds. Those of primary importance in nutrition include

methionine, cysteine, homocysteine, taurine, chondroitin, heparin, fibrinogen, thiamine, biotin, lipoic acid, coenzyme A, glutathione, and inorganic sulfate.

A most important function of sulfur is its role in carbohydrate metabolism, where sulfur is a component of insulin, the hormone secreted by the pancreas essential for carbohydrate metabolism. Low sulfur can result in low insulin production, so adequate amounts of sulfur in the diet can help with diabetes.
http://www.acu-cell.com/ses.html
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Kumar said:
Pls tell me something about sulphur & sulphur containing medicines, insulin & protiens.
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OK. Rhombic sulphur, the allotrope of elemental sulphur which is stable at room temperature, is yellow in colour.
 
Don't do it, Materia. Don't swallow the red pill.


Really.

Don't.

You give him any information about "sulfur", any scrap of a factoid, and he'll assimilate it and spew it back at us for days on end in gibberish form, and use it as a starting point to Google an unending stream of irrelevant links.

He's a devotee of the "body pH" wack theory, as outlined in the links he just provided, which contains such gems as this:

REMEDIES for Alkalosis include:

fear;
acidic foods;
intense emotions;
infections;
more thinking.
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We may not be able to satisfy each other in view of consideration as mentioned on following link;

'No organization, however old or however recent, can lead a man to truth. It is a hindrance, it can only impede. It blocks a man from sincere study. The truth comes from within, by seeing for yourself. The conventional way of acquiring knowledge, it's true, is by reading or listening but to understand you have to penetrate directly, by silently observing. Then you understand.'

He paused and I waited for him to go on. 'Obviously if you are going to build a bridge you must study strains and stresses, but in the matter of understanding truth or the concepts of love, philosophical or religious thoughts, anything to do with reality, it has to be penetrated and experienced directly without any intellectual interpretation. Truth comes from within. Once the understanding comes you are able to talk about it but it does not follow that a listener will understand.'

'If you described a book or a motor car or the plane we are traveling in I would understand,' I said.

'That is the purpose of the intellect, sir, to communicate. Mechanical or materialistic things can be understood, but if I tried to tell you what God is, what truth is or what love is you would not fully understand. Perhaps I know what love is, what God is, what reality is - I could write a book on what love is or what reality is and you could read it and intellectually you would understand the book, but it does not follow automatically that you would know what love is, or what reality is. This you must understand by direct experience, without interpretation and without intellectualization. The thought and the word are not the thing but a distortion of the reality.'

http://www.kinfonet.org/Biography/coleman.asp
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Kumar said:
Mr. Hans, Rolfe,zep,

Thank for your new year gifts.

*snip*
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You are welcome. Since you have never EVER contributed one iota yourself, you have to be happy with whatever you get. Should you ever want to enter a constructive debate, the tone will be different, but for now.....


Hans
 
Terry said:
In other words, the cells become resistant to the effects of insulin. Hence insulin resistance.

--Terry.
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My god, I've read 30 pages of my Immunology book, and I already know that the above statment is so very very wrong.
 
Originally quoted by Kumar
The conventional way of acquiring knowledge, it's true, is by reading or listening but to understand you have to penetrate directly, by silently observing. Then you understand.
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If this accurately reflects your approach to gaining knowledge, it may explain why you keep asking questions that have already been answered.

The only way you can acquire knowledge, or indeed understanding, from this forum is through reading the replies.
 
Anders said:
My god, I've read 30 pages of my Immunology book, and I already know that the above statment is so very very wrong.
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You mean insulin resistance is not characterised by cells not being able to use the insulin available? I'm sorry, I didn't know that. I'm only a diabetic, not a doctor. I've probably been told the reader's-digest summary version. Do you have a nice link that explains it in detail? Or a book recommendation?

--Terry.
 
http://syndromex.stanford.edu/InsulinResistance.htm
What is insulin resistance?

Insulin resistance occurs when the normal amount of insulin secreted by the pancreas is not able to unlock the door to cells. To maintain a normal blood glucose, the pancreas secretes additional insulin. In some cases (about 1/3 of the people with insulin resistance), when the body cells resist or do not respond to even high levels of insulin, glucose builds up in the blood resulting in high blood glucose or type 2 diabetes. Even people with diabetes who take oral medication or require insulin injections to control their blood glucose levels can have higher than normal blood insulin levels due to insulin resistance.
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http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/
Insulin resistance is a silent condition that increases the chances of developing diabetes and heart disease. Learning about insulin resistance is the first step you can take toward making lifestyle changes that will help you prevent diabetes and other health problems.

After you eat, the food is broken down into glucose, the simple sugar that is the main source of energy for the body's cells. But your cells cannot use glucose without insulin, a hormone produced by the pancreas. Insulin helps the cells take in glucose and convert it to energy. When the pancreas does not make enough insulin or the body is unable to use the insulin that is present, the cells cannot use glucose. Excess glucose builds up in the bloodstream, setting the stage for diabetes.

Being obese or overweight affects the way insulin works in your body. Extra fat tissue can make your body resistant to the action of insulin, but exercise helps insulin work well.

If you have insulin resistance, your muscle, fat, and liver cells do not use insulin properly. The pancreas tries to keep up with the demand for insulin by producing more. Eventually, the pancreas cannot keep up with the body's need for insulin, and excess glucose builds up in the bloodstream. Many people with insulin resistance have high levels of blood glucose and high levels of insulin circulating in their blood at the same time.
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Looks to me like Terry got it right--insulin resistance means that cells cannot use insulin properly, i.e. that they're "resistant" to the effects of insulin.

What's your quibble, Anders?
 
Terry said:
You mean insulin resistance is not characterised by cells not being able to use the insulin available? I'm sorry, I didn't know that. I'm only a diabetic, not a doctor. I've probably been told the reader's-digest summary version. Do you have a nice link that explains it in detail? Or a book recommendation?

--Terry.
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I have reviewed many links and found the following to be one of the best essays on the subject:

Insulin Resistance Syndrome

Frederick R. Jelovsek MD

Insulin resistance is an impaired metabolic response to our body's own insulin so that active muscle cells cannot take up glucose as easily as they should. In that situation, the blood insulin levels are chronically higher which inhibits our fat cells from giving up their energy stores to let us lose weight. This disorder is associated with obesity, hypertension, abnormal triglycerides, glucose intolerance (syndrome 'X") and Type 2 diabetes mellitus.
http://www.wdxcyber.com/ngen10.htm
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You are basically correct but perhaps your choice of wording made it sound like it was an immunological or auto-immune reaction to insulin which causes IR.??? IR is linked to the risk factors mentioned above in the first part of the first paragraph of this essay. There have been some opinions that the condition may be genetic (mentioned in this paper) but this has never been confirmed whereas the association with these risks factors is about 100% in every case. Then of course it is possible that a genetic predisposition may be triggered if the victim has one or more of the associated conditions.
 
Goshawk said:
You give him any information about "sulfur", any scrap of a factoid, and he'll assimilate it and spew it back at us for days on end in gibberish form, and use it as a starting point to Google an unending stream of irrelevant links.
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Interesting choice of word there. Kumar is like a mad version of the Borg. "Resistance is futile".

or is he more like a magpie or jay using the glittery pretty jewelled ideas we give him to decorate his tatty nest.
 
I hasten to add that while the type of insulin resistance we have been talking about is not immunological, there are immune processes that produce antibodies to insulin. They are relatively rare but in the interests of accuracy they need to be considered. Thus the immunology textbook referred to above which apparently did not cover this subject can at best be considered incomplete:

INSULIN ANTIBODIES

Insulin is a large polypeptide. Therefore, Immunogesic either alone or as a Heptan. This is more likely when if patient is treated with exogenous insulin, which is derived from other species whose structures differ from human hormones.

Nowadays immune problem due to insulin antibodies have been extremely uncommon due to the introduction of synthetic insulins of human sequence and purified porcine insulin [Porcine insulin is less immunogesic than Bovine]

DETERNINANTS OF IMMUNE RESPONSE

Insulin Individuals
* Species * Genetic factor (Genetic factor) Lower ‘Ab’ titre in subjects
* Chemical Modification * Age with HLA B8 / DR3 phenotype.
* Retarding agents

Two types of antibodies are formed

1) IgE -> Insulin + IgE complex-> Mast cells -> Anaphylactic reactions
2) IgG
i) Local immune complex deposits ® Lipoatrophic
Type III – Antigen + Antibody complex mediated hypersensitivity.
ii) Large circulating immune complexes
¯
Clearance by RE system
¯
Insulin Resistance
iii) High concentration of circulating Ab bound insulin ® Buffer effect
iv) Low circulating concentration of Ab ® No clinical effect.
INSULIN AUTO ANTIBODIES
In some individual insulin auto antibodies developed with out prior administration of exogenous insulin
E.g. I) In patients with Graves disease treated with mothimazole.
ii) In some other treated with Hydralgin procainamide etc.
iii) In prediabetic phase of IDDM

Clinical features

a) May be silent
b) Insulin autoantibodies hypoglycemic syndrome.

Characterized by positive GTT with fasting hypoglycemia. Here the antibodies buffer the effect of insulin. During GTT, insulin released is captured by these antibodies results in decreased availability of free insulin ® positive GTT. But later prolonged release of insulin by dissociation from antibody bound fraction ® fasting hypoglycemia

Insulin autoantibodies may therefore find application as a marker of early autoimmune process which leads to IDDM and used to find subjects at high risks of developing IDDM and who might ultimately benefit from immuno suppressive treatment

http://www.diabetesforum.net/eng_treat_insulin_antibodies.htm
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materia3 said:
I hasten to add that while the type of insulin resistance we have been talking about is not immunological, there are immune processes that produce antibodies to insulin. They are relatively rare but in the interests of accuracy they need to be considered. Thus the immunology textbook referred to above which apparently did not cover this subject can at best be considered incomplete:
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Yes, I meant the autoimmunity disease. Sorry about that, I'm concentrating in just one thing right now, the immunology course.

Sorry!
 
Anders said:
Yes, I meant the autoimmunity disease. Sorry about that, I'm concentrating in just one thing right now, the immunology course.

Sorry!
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umm... I don't see where in my post, which you said was "so very very wrong" that I said anything about auto-immunity. Kumar quoted someone who said that insulin resistance was a misnomer. I don't see that - I was trying to point out that the name of the condition is perfectly descriptive of what's going on.

--Terry.
 
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