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Question: weight loss and Fruit consumption in day

Care to expand at all?

Dealing with the whole is too extend. I will give you some examples:

Tow days you eat 1000 kcal each.

Day 1: chicken breast, onion and raw spinach salad, lot's of vegetable soup containing everything including tons of celery and parsley

Result: you lose 3.5 pounds

Day 2:breakfast: parmesan cheese, lunch: trippa alla florentina, dinner: greasy frankfurters

Result: you will gain 4.5 pounds

You go back to your dietary rut. Result of 2 days dieting: Nothing.

I have already written about many elements that make your post incomplete.

about this equation:

Change in weight = Calories In - Calories Out

it is false and misleading.

Left member should be "caloric imbalance" and there's a not that strong correlation between it and weigh loss.

In medicine, hardly 2 plus 2 makes 4.
 
I'm calling your sources hogwash[...]

You literally said that anyone who says the Atkins diet works through any method other than the one you are saying is ignorant. I have directly quoted doctors who say otherwise. If the question is who is more ignorant about how the human body works, I will side with those with medical qualifications.

But, tell you what, if you want to dispute the research discussed in the link I provided, why not link to a study which shows people on the Atkins diet with a higher energy intake than they would need to lose weight on a restricted calorie diet, yet who are still losing weight?
 
Dealing with the whole is too extend. I will give you some examples:

Tow days you eat 1000 kcal each.

Day 1: chicken breast, onion and raw spinach salad, lot's of vegetable soup containing everything including tons of celery and parsley

Result: you lose 3.5 pounds

Day 2:breakfast: parmesan cheese, lunch: trippa alla florentina, dinner: greasy frankfurters

Result: you will gain 4.5 pounds

You go back to your dietary rut. Result of 2 days dieting: Nothing.

I have already written about many elements that make your post incomplete.

about this equation:

Change in weight = Calories In - Calories Out

it is false and misleading.

Left member should be "caloric imbalance" and there's a not that strong correlation between it and weigh loss.

In medicine, hardly 2 plus 2 makes 4.

Really? You're flirting with Million Dollar Challenge territory here.
 
You literally said that anyone who says the Atkins diet works through any method other than the one you are saying is ignorant.

I'm literally saying that anyone who calls Atkins' a diet which is not within the parameters established by Atkins is a moron.

Let me summarize it: there's the Atkins' diet; as in any "good news" fad, there are verbal elements that enable people to be overoptimistic, but there are technical elements which are very strict; people make mistakes and they believe they are following Atkins'; people wrongly call "Atkins' " some diets that follow some of those verbal elements and none of the technical ones; critics (doctors, journalists, garbage collectors, nobel prize laureates, the king of Norway, etc. I cannot care less) take that "Atkins' " (notice the quotation marks) and criticizes Atkins (notice the lack of quotation marks); they are being moronic for doing so as their criticism boils down to "you are following a diet in a wrong way and you're not getting the results you expected. so the diet followed in its right way must be **** ", which is a platitude (qualified platitude in the case of physicians, journalists and nobel laureates) followed by a perverse fallacy.

And as I am fed up of the fallacies committed in this forum by apparently serious members, I won't accept any reiteration of argumentum ad verecundiam nor any suggestion of no-true-Scotsman on something that is true when instructions are properly followed.
 
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Really? You're flirting with Million Dollar Challenge territory here.

In no way I'm doing that (I forgot to add a spoonful of fish liver oil to day 1)

Day 1: a strong anti-inflammatory diet containing long chain omega-3 which foster the production of a less inflammatory leukotriene LTB5, lesser production of inflammatory prostaglandins and less potent tromboxane TxA,3

also containing a strong natural diuretic: apiole (also used as a natural abortive in large doses)

Day 2: a strong inflammatory diet containing long chain omega-6 (arachidonic acid contained in the abomasum in trippa and in the frankfurters) which produce the most inflamatory leukotrienes and a larger volume of prostaglandins.

also containing lots of inflammatory saturated fat

Look, man. I didn't believe this myself in spite of the scientific evidence I've already found, so I decided to do a experiment with myself. Naturally, my weight is lower in the morning and and higher when the sun sets, but maybe more marked in my person, as I have little problems with my venous return.

Then, I followed a strict diet with low calories and intake like day 1 during two days. In the morning of the third day I weighed myself and the result was X.

Then, I followed a nasty diet, with a normal caloric intake, but more on the day 2 side. 36 hours later I weighed myself again: the result was X + 4.7 kg (10.3 pounds). Then I accepted the notions and haven't had any reason to do differently ever since.

ETA: If any of you want to do the experiment. Let me know and I'll provide detailed information.
 
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And all this back and forth is why I just boil it down to eat less (calories - not necessarily quantity), move more.

People get into some of these micro-managed diets and over thinking that include things they normally would never eat and exclude things that they want to eat.

Just be mindful of portion size. Be aware of when you are no longer hungry rather than eating until you are full all the time. Change some things. Lighten up on the over processed foods and consume more whole foods (fruits, veggies, meats, whole grains, etc.). And move to the best of your ability. Most people are capable of pushing themselves harder than they realize. I have two jobs and five kids, a mechanical heart valve and a Dacron graft for an ascending aorta. I could list out my families weekly schedule and most would agree that I "didn't have time to exercise". I'm making time now. I get up earlier. I don't stay up as late for "me time".

It isn't rocket science. It is quite simple. That's not to say it's easy. It requires self discipline and motivation.
 
I'm literally saying that anyone who calls Atkins' a diet which is not within the parameters established by Atkins is a moron.

Let me summarize it: there's the Atkins' diet; as in any "good news" fad, there are verbal elements that enable people to be overoptimistic, but there are technical elements which are very strict; people make mistakes and they believe they are following Atkins'; people wrongly call "Atkins' " some diets that follow some of those verbal elements and none of the technical ones; critics (doctors, journalists, garbage collectors, nobel prize laureates, the king of Norway, etc. I cannot care less) take that "Atkins' " (notice the quotation marks) and criticizes Atkins (notice the lack of quotation marks); they are being moronic for doing so as their criticism boils down to "you are following a diet in a wrong way and you're not getting the results you expected. so the diet followed in its right way must be **** ", which is a platitude (qualified platitude in the case of physicians, journalists and nobel laureates) followed by a perverse fallacy.

And as I am fed up of the fallacies committed in this forum by apparently serious members, I won't accept any reiteration of argumentum ad verecundiam nor any suggestion of no-true-Scotsman on something that is true when instructions are properly followed.

So that's a "no" on being able to link to any study in which it's demonstrated that people on the Atkins diet ingest more calories than they would otherwise need to lose weight, then?
 
So that's a "no" on being able to link to any study in which it's demonstrated that people on the Atkins diet ingest more calories than they would otherwise need to lose weight, then?

How ironic that you are asking a link about something and one of many possible links is the one YOU already posted.

It's obvious you posted it but you wouldn't read it. I commented on it ("22Kcal is not much" said either a biochemist or a physician). Those are calories ingested but lost, hence aiding in losing weight. If you want more detailed information and a lot of links to scientific studies, just buy Dr. Atkins' book.

Additionally, by definition there's no hypercaloric weight-control program to become thinner. You are mixing up metabolic pathways with caloric requirements.
 
I'm going on a diet starting next Monday. My goal is losing 1.75 brackets of weigth (8.5 Kg /1 stone 4). I will combine the best two diets (for me and according to what so far I know). I can't do much exercise nor stay more active this time, so it's tough.

One diet, total intake 1500 kcal, distributed as 100 g protein, 160 g carbohydrates and 40 g fat. No fruits but tomato and strawberry, 3 pounds vegetables a day, less than 10 g of saturated fat per day. Low in arachidonic acid, high in oleic acid, high in DHA and EPA (not very high on DPA, otherwise I have to cut the preventive aspirin). Supplement on vitamins group B, D, E and K.

I will follow it during 4 weeks minus 2 days to lose some 7 pounds. Then switch to Atkins like diet. Intake: proteins 130 g, fats 110 g, carbohydrates 20 g. I have to burn 700 kcal by walking or whatever -I have two bedrooms to paint- one day and other extra 300 kcal each following day. I expect to lose 7 pounds in 9 days, half of it via dehydration. Then back to first diet for another 26 days, losing 7 pounds (minus that dehydration). Total time, 2 months.

I hope I will endure. It's a very healthy diet with concentrated risks in the moments they are worth running them.
 
How ironic that you are asking a link about something and one of many possible links is the one YOU already posted.

It's obvious you posted it but you wouldn't read it. I commented on it ("22Kcal is not much" said either a biochemist or a physician). Those are calories ingested but lost, hence aiding in losing weight. If you want more detailed information and a lot of links to scientific studies, just buy Dr. Atkins' book.

Additionally, by definition there's no hypercaloric weight-control program to become thinner. You are mixing up metabolic pathways with caloric requirements.

I'm not questioning whether ketosis is a real thing. I'm asking if you know of a study of the Atkins diet which keeps track of the calories being ingested and thereby demonstrates that people are ingesting more calories than would otherwise allow them to lose weight. You're flat-out wrong that that's what my link said, as it explicitly says (and I have already quoted) that when they looked at how many calories people were ingesting that those on the Atkins diet were eating the same amount as those people on calorie-controlled diets, such as Weight Watchers.

As for 22 calories, you seem to have misunderstood the relevance of that. Yes, that's calories the participants wouldn't have lost on other diets. But, seeing as that equates to ingesting half an apple, and can be burnt off by walking at a normal pace for 6 minutes, it's negligible and cannot be the primary method of weight loss.

So that's what you're looking for - a study which establishes that people on the Atkins diet actually do eat the same or more calories as they did when they gained or maintained their weight. And if such a study hasn't been done - not even by Dr. Atkins himself - then it might be worth asking yourself why not. The first thing to do in science is to determine whether or not an effect actually exists, before you go trying to explain how it works.
 
I'm not questioning whether ketosis is a real thing. I'm asking if you know of a study of the Atkins diet which keeps track of the calories being ingested and thereby demonstrates that people are ingesting more calories than would otherwise allow them to lose weight. You're flat-out wrong that that's what my link said, as it explicitly says (and I have already quoted) that when they looked at how many calories people were ingesting that those on the Atkins diet were eating the same amount as those people on calorie-controlled diets, such as Weight Watchers.

As for 22 calories, you seem to have misunderstood the relevance of that. Yes, that's calories the participants wouldn't have lost on other diets. But, seeing as that equates to ingesting half an apple, and can be burnt off by walking at a normal pace for 6 minutes, it's negligible and cannot be the primary method of weight loss.

So that's what you're looking for - a study which establishes that people on the Atkins diet actually do eat the same or more calories as they did when they gained or maintained their weight. And if such a study hasn't been done - not even by Dr. Atkins himself - then it might be worth asking yourself why not. The first thing to do in science is to determine whether or not an effect actually exists, before you go trying to explain how it works.

I find it disappointing and frustrating that we cannot seem to get to the bottom of whether people on the Atkins diet can consume significantly more calories than people on other diets and still achieve the same results*. I had heard that the "success" of Atkins was down to consuming fewer calories but like so many other "things that people know", it could have been nonsense.

The article I linked to upthread seemed to indicate that the difficulty of extracting energy from fats and proteins may mean that someone on an Atkins-like diet could consume 400-600 calories more a day but it wasn't definitive.


* - I'm talking about prolonged results, Atkins may allow greater water loss in the first few days.
 
I find it disappointing and frustrating that we cannot seem to get to the bottom of whether people on the Atkins diet can consume significantly more calories than people on other diets and still achieve the same results*. I had heard that the "success" of Atkins was down to consuming fewer calories but like so many other "things that people know", it could have been nonsense.

The article I linked to upthread seemed to indicate that the difficulty of extracting energy from fats and proteins may mean that someone on an Atkins-like diet could consume 400-600 calories more a day but it wasn't definitive.


* - I'm talking about prolonged results, Atkins may allow greater water loss in the first few days.

The only study I've found that even addresses the subject (as in actually counts the calories consumed) is the one discussed in the link I posted above. One study, of course, isn't conclusive of anything, but that found that the actual calories consumed are about the same as on calorie controlled diets.

I definitely think that the first stage should be to establish whether or not it's actually true that people can consume more calories on the Atkins than on any other diet, before trying to work out how it happens. I think any paper which starts with the assumption that it's true has missed a very important step.
 
I'm not questioning whether ketosis is a real thing. I'm asking if you know of a study of the Atkins diet which keeps track of the calories being ingested and thereby demonstrates that people are ingesting more calories than would otherwise allow them to lose weight. You're flat-out wrong that that's what my link said, as it explicitly says (and I have already quoted) that when they looked at how many calories people were ingesting that those on the Atkins diet were eating the same amount as those people on calorie-controlled diets, such as Weight Watchers.

As for 22 calories, you seem to have misunderstood the relevance of that. Yes, that's calories the participants wouldn't have lost on other diets. But, seeing as that equates to ingesting half an apple, and can be burnt off by walking at a normal pace for 6 minutes, it's negligible and cannot be the primary method of weight loss.

So that's what you're looking for - a study which establishes that people on the Atkins diet actually do eat the same or more calories as they did when they gained or maintained their weight. And if such a study hasn't been done - not even by Dr. Atkins himself - then it might be worth asking yourself why not. The first thing to do in science is to determine whether or not an effect actually exists, before you go trying to explain how it works.

As I said, the studies are in the book. I linked the book above, it includes preview and there are many papers available for you to track (good luck tracking papers from the seventies). I don't need what you're asking for. I had my own case study on my own. We documented it with my father (a gastroenterologist and diabetologist). I never estimated the overall effect -and it's almost impossible to do, but I have firm hypothesis on that). I lost 22.8 kg (let's divide it in 3 kg muscle, 1.8 kg water and 18 kg fat tissues) to total some 140,000 Kcal. My intake was during the 59 days of the diet averaged 1350/1400 kcal. So my "apparent consumption was 3700 kcal/day.

By those times my ideal weight was 79 kg and my activities, time of the year and age determined some 30/31 Kcal/kg, that is, 2400 Kcal/day. I walked a lot during the diet, with peaks of 14 km some spare day and no less than 6km walked each day. Let's say an average of 8 km a day. With my ideal weight and my average real weight in that period, plus I walked very fast (some 7.5 km/hour in the beginning), that means my walking -and the extra muscle work during hours after each walk-, I burnt some 700 kcal a day. That leaves at least 600 Kcal a day to be eliminated as ketones. That means no less than 80 g ketones a day. Let's suppose 30 of them go out with urine. I drank like a camel in the oasis and pee like an elephant, let's say one gallon a day (now it's normal to me because of the diuretics). That is a concentration of 70mg/10 cm3 for ketone, that is IN THE PURPLE, EXACTLY AS REQUIRED BY ATKINS.

Don't take me wrong:
You lose a lot of weight
You lose you health while you do so: you gave up your bones, your teeth, your immune system weakens, etc.

I never repeated it, and not for lack of courage and will.

There's also a trap in losing weight so easily: you eat inconvenient food as you'll wipe the fat away later with you super diet. That's the worst mistake a person trying to lose weight can do. Anyone can lose tons of weight, not many can become slim people for ever ... and that's the point.

Today, to me Atkin's inspired diets are just a reinforcement just in those moments your body becomes a cheap expender and you're hungry even when you've just eaten. The "ketogenic" factor gives the diet a boost. It diminishes appetite just as a side effect of ketone. It avoids your body burning little energy. But the minute you start to lose weight steadily you have to abandon the ketogenic factor and draw back to the safe and sound diet.

If any of you wants to know what I eat, avoid eating or plan to eat during my current diet, just ask.
 
The key points in Atkins:

ketone inhibit appetite. You're not hungry and your mouth tastes bad.

physical exercise combined with high ketone levels block the natural mechanisms human body has to cope with famine -basically tuning down your basal metabolism, making you sleepy, making you move slowly and as little as possible, and giving you hunger as a motivational factor-. It's a feedback: 150 kcal a day worth of ketone will probably trigger a total effect of 700 in a 80-100 kg person.
 
As I said, the studies are in the book. I linked the book above, it includes preview and there are many papers available for you to track (good luck tracking papers from the seventies).

I'm asking you to substantiate your argument. If there is a specific study in the book that substantiates your claim, please quote it. If said study is available in a preview, then a link to it would be awesome. The burden of proof lies with you.
 
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