Question for Trump supporters

Jrrarglblarg said:
I object to his proposal to build a wall across the border with Mexico. It was his first policy statement and he hasn't backed off of it.
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Are you aware that in many locations there is a substantial fence separating the US from Mexico? Do you also oppose the fence?
 
NoahFence said:
Apologies. But when something is so clearly asinine, it needs to be called out.
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Thanks for putting motives in my mouth.

I can't even bloody vote. I'm a kiwi on the other side of the world. I'm not exactly filled with a hidden agenda
 
BobTheCoward said:
I thought we were talking about anti immigration anti multiculturalism rather than self described white supremacist.
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I said a fair portion of Trump's support base are straight-up racist with no need for "anti-multiculturalism" euphemisms, and pointed at the self-described white supremacists currently driving the clown car.

You disagreed, and said they'd treat members of other races the same if they shared the same cultural values (presumably not values like "whites should have their own bathrooms").

I snorted with derision.

Did I miss anything?
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I said a fair portion of Trump's support base are straight-up racist with no need for "anti-multiculturalism" euphemisms, and pointed at the self-described white supremacists currently driving the clown car.

You disagreed, and said they'd treat members of other races the same if they shared the same cultural values (presumably not values like "whites should have their own bathrooms").

I snorted with derision.

Did I miss anything?
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We just have a serious disagreement about the proportions
 
Brainster said:
Are you aware that in many locations there is a substantial fence separating the US from Mexico? Do you also oppose the fence?
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I posted a thread you might have missed where I asserted the need for a MALL across the border. A mile wide, a thousand miles long, easy parking in both North and South lots, indoor water park, designed explicitly to move money, labor and materials both north and south for the betterment of everyone, filled with labor agencies, immigration lawyers, and bilingual kids in red hats everywhere to answer questions and help people know where to go to finish their paperwork allowing them to exit from a different direction than they entered.

Too expensive? Fine, lets revisit the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. That's my counter-proposal. In neither case do I advocate ignorant isolationism that ignores the real world looming crisis in America of the aging out of the baby boom generation and the economic benefits of an immigration wave of people who want to work hard and make their lives better.
 
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BobTheCoward said:
We just have a serious disagreement about the proportions
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Judging from your insistence that two people of different races need to have identical values for it count as racism, I think we'd have a serious disagreement about the definition of racism, too.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Judging from your insistence that two people of different races need to have identical values for it count as racism, I think we'd have a serious disagreement about the definition of racism, too.
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Depends on what you define as a person's race. If you include shared cultural elements it is racism. If it is literally just genetic physical features the number of racists are far lower.
 
I dare to say that most Trump supporters know that what he proposes is not exactly true but more the like of short-lived guiding fictions. But it is to regret that anti-Trumpists here and over there find literal interpretations to be easier to criticize and they make a riot about them. The consequence being Trump supporters not able to express themselves freely here even in a thread that invite them to do so.

To name an example, I always understood Trump's wall as a symbol that the colander-border is over, that illegal immigration control is to be tightened and that there'll be consequences to those breaking the law. Of course, all of this works only if you punish severely the citizens hiring these aliens, but that is politically costly so let's say "we'll build a wall... we'll make Mexico pay for it". Of course some control using unmanned aircrafts with recognition software, land sensors and well equipped rangers would be much more effective and less costly, but that'll come after the election.

Trump is a strange political creature. He's the "American" Evita and what he says and does is like an "American" Dreyfus affair. He is set to stir passions and have everyone at either extreme of the tug-o-war.
 
aleCcowaN said:
I dare to say that most Trump supporters know that what he proposes is not exactly true but more the like of short-lived guiding fictions. But it is to regret that anti-Trumpists here and over there find literal interpretations to be easier to criticize and they make a riot about them. The consequence being Trump supporters not able to express themselves freely here even in a thread that invite them to do so.

To name an example, I always understood Trump's wall as a symbol that the colander-border is over, that illegal immigration control is to be tightened and that there'll be consequences to those breaking the law. Of course, all of this works only if you punish severely the citizens hiring these aliens, but that is politically costly so let's say "we'll build a wall... we'll make Mexico pay for it". Of course some control using unmanned aircrafts with recognition software, land sensors and well equipped rangers would be much more effective and less costly, but that'll come after the election.

Trump is a strange political creature. He's the "American" Evita and what he says and does is like an "American" Dreyfus affair. He is set to stir passions and have everyone at either extreme of the tug-o-war.
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Are you saying we shouldn't criticize what Trump says but what you think he means? That seems rather hard.
 
uke2se said:
Are you saying we shouldn't criticize what Trump says but what you think he means? That seems rather hard.
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You can criticize Trump all you want for any reason, even a valid one, but not in this thread if Trump supporters are to explain how they feel about it.

On the other hand, what I was saying is "play like you are the ambassador of Belgium in the USA. What would you pay attention? To whatever Trump literally says or to what he seems to be willing to do?".
 
aleCcowaN said:
You can criticize Trump all you want for any reason, even a valid one, but not in this thread if Trump supporters are to explain how they feel about it.
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Fair enough. I'd be willing to keep this thread as a safe space for Trump supporters.

As long as they type out "I need a safe space to post about Trump."

aleCcowaN said:
On the other hand, what I was saying is "play like you are the ambassador of Belgium in the USA. What would you pay attention? To whatever Trump literally says or to what he seems to be willing to do?".
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What he says, obviously. Nobody knows what he's willing to do, and anyone who says they do are lying.
 
I didn't have high hopes for this thread, nor the previous one. No, not only because of the relentless and often counter-productive criticisms/mocking of Trump supporters, Trump, and his sundry policy ideas, although that's certainly a large part of it.

The other major problem is the concept of using the direct question in and of itself. It presupposes that Trump supporters know, and are willing and able to honestly articulate, why they support Trump. If the goal is to find out why people support Trump, or really anyone, such a question is going to receive rationalizations.

Not that there is no utility in such. It's still vital to know on the way to answering the question of why anyone supports Trump. It's useful to discover which of his ideas people either think are the best, or think are the ones most acceptable to advocate as the best, in and of itself. I'm just fairly sure that such a thread is not going to be able to get enough valid information about a candidate such as Trump.
 
uke2se said:
What he says, obviously. Nobody knows what he's willing to do, and anyone who says they do are lying.
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I'm most certain Mr Ambassador will only read between the lines. That's the way politics was, is and will be everywhere.

Certain critics of Trump -like some of many writing editorials in The New York Times- have taken care of spelling out his positions, like his isolationism.
 
tyr_13 said:
Not that there is no utility in such. It's still vital to know on the way to answering the question of why anyone supports Trump. It's useful to discover which of his ideas people either think are the best, or think are the ones most acceptable to advocate as the best, in and of itself. I'm just fairly sure that such a thread is not going to be able to get enough valid information about a candidate such as Trump.
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You may be right. It's not much about Trump's proposals but "the Trump phenomenon".
 
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