Question for the twoofers about why NIST is wrong

I'm not surprised, she at least has the advantage of being a hot looking gyal.

Say what????????????????????????????

JWood.jpg


Thats the photo she uses herslf, usually people use the best photo they have for those purposes, if thats the best photo of her, OMG.

Time to get the prescription on those super deluxe beer goggles checked?
 
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apparently wood also believes in weather control and that hurricane katrina was "manipulated" and aimed toward galviston bay (she also chimes in favor of spike lees levee bombs)

so we have star wars beams, weather control, keebler elves and billiard balls, is this really an engineer you want to be citing?
 
I can't speak about Wood in detail, as I haven't seen a presentation of hers, beyond the one slide I reprinted above. But I once timed a Steven Jones presentation, and over half of it was political material, not science (and I'm using a very loose definition of science). Jones starts presentations with a picture of an American flag and a lecture about the Constitution. He then proceeds to misquote Patrick Henry, which is pretty funny. It angers me to see someone so horribly misrepresent science because of a political agenda. I feel the same way about the Bush administration.


I respect you for adding that last sentence.

All 9/11 CTs have a political aspect because it is believed to be a political conspiracy. The bigger picture is exposing elements running the country who might be involved.

I know republicans who voted for Bush in 2000 who now think the Bush Administration were involved in it
 
Going so soon? What about all those really great questions I asked you?


Let's perform a thought experiment, shall we? Have you ever played the game Jenga? A group of people construct a wooden tower using alternating patterns of 3 wooden blocks, and then they take turns removing pieces. The winner is the last person to successfully remove a piece.

Jenga is an interesting sidebar into a branch of newtonian mechanics known as statics. The tower has some interesting properties. First, each floor (except for the top floor) must be in static equillibrium in order to prevent the tower from collapsing, second, there are two possible equillibria states. One involves equillibrium with two blocks and one with only one block.

The Jenga tower is a good model for progressive collapse because it follows the two conditions that real towers must posess. Each floor must be in static equillibrium and each floor has two states of equillibrium: the determinate and the indeterminate. Consider that the single beam Jenga floor is the determinate case wherein the entire weight of the structure above rests on one beam. In the determinate case, the stress on the beam is equal to the weight of the structure above the beam.

Consider the indeterminate case of two beams. Despite the fact that each beam now carries half of the load of the above structure, the removal of either of the beams will cause the structure to collapse. Thus, despite the very true assertion that the tower is redundantly supported (indeed, only one beam is necessary, as proved by the determinate case), that has no bearing in its collapse. As soon as one beam is removed, collapse becomes inevitable. Notice that we do not make the assumption that the lower levels of the Jenga tower will support the load. Indeed, the Jenga beams are capable of supporting extremely heavy loads, but they are not capable of stopping the collapse.

This is a very important point: the load bearing capacity of the floors below is not a measure of their ability to stop collapse. Indeed, stopping a collapse would require a damping ability; the ability to slow down and dissipate all of the potential energy.

Like the wooden blocks of the Jenga tower, the WTC towers had rigid supports. Had they the structural capacity to bear the weight of one extra floor, the fact remains that Newton's 3rd law must be obeyed. All of the energy that the upper portions of the WTC tower had as kenetic energy during their decent was reflected back to them by the portion of the tower that remained fixed to the ground. This force simply exceeds the material strength of the towers.

Consider that, for the multiple redundancies in the Jenga tower, only one beam needs to be removed in order to make collapse inevitable. The bowing of columns in the WTC tower was indeed the final block necessary to make the tower collapse. It is possible to examine and pinpoint the sequence of events that lead to the collapse initiation state in the same way that it is possible to determine the winner of a game of Jenga.

To summarize:
NIST made the assumption that collapse became inevitable at some point based on the very valid premise that the towers were rigid structures with no ability to absorb and dissipate the energy present in the falling sections of the towers. The WTC towers were incapable of stopping any form of collapse after it started.

Furthermore, the purpose of the NIST investigation was not to determine who was at fault for the WTC collapse. Rather, the genesis of the investigation was to determine what, if any, building codes needed to be changed in order to prevent another WTC type collapse. Indeed, it is far wiser to determine methods that prevent the lead up to a precise point in collapse initiation than to attempt to make any skyscraper capable of stopping progressive collapse. In the case of collapse initiation, NIST has outlined a very specific series of events leading to collapse, and it follows that an interruption of any of the events would prevent collapse.

I'm quoting myself here for reference in the following posts.
 
I think it is more accurate than the jenga garbage that a skeptic posted earlier in this thread.

Would you please gather the entirety of your intellectual capacity and make a coherent counter argument to my above post?
 
Would you please gather the entirety of your intellectual capacity and make a coherent counter argument to my above post?

Jenga is little wooden bricks resting on each other and being pulled out.

WTC was a huge steel superstructure bolted together that was hit by a plane.

The End.
 
Jenga is little wooden bricks resting on each other and being pulled out.

WTC was a huge steel superstructure bolted together that was hit by a plane.

The End.
and a tree is a tree, how is it more representative of the WTC?
 
I respect you for adding that last sentence.
And there's the whole goddamned problem, Wizard.

I was writing about people who disregard facts in favor of politics. You disregard facts, but you respect one statement of opinion I made because it agrees with a political stance of yours. That's what I've been writing about here. Do you see that?
 
I saw it mentioned but it didn't seem relevant to the NIST report. Now that I know it's about the game, I see the relevance but don't think it's an apt analogy.

To clarify myself, Gravy, the Jenga post was in response to the question, posed by Wizard, of why collapse became inevitable after it initiated. I used a Jenga tower to prove two points without pesky equations and physics:
1) The WTC towers had no capacity to stop a collapse once it initiated. That's why it's a perfectly valid assumption to assume that collapse initiation means total collapse of the towers.
2) That redundancy of design does not necessarily mean that the towers were capable of stopping collapse once it started.

To be clear, I was asked a question to which I gave a thoughtful, well-informed response. The response was dismissed wholesale without any counter-argument.

In addition, Wizard asked me the question AFTER I showed him the point in the NIST report (1-5G) where it specifically shows how they accounted for thermal conductivity. He has failed to conceed this point, and rather chose to redirect the argument.
 
and a tree is a tree, how is it more representative of the WTC?


To be fair the tree is ridiculous aswell. They are as stupid as each other.

The WTC cannot be compared to anything. A unique building in unique circumstances.

Even gravy admits the jenga analogy is not good
 
And there's the whole goddamned problem, Wizard.

I was writing about people who disregard facts in favor of politics. You disregard facts, but you respect one statement of opinion I made because it agrees with a political stance of yours. That's what I've been writing about here. Do you see that?

No I meant I respected your balance in that post.

Name a fact I have disregarded
 
I'm quoting myself here for reference in the following posts.
Now that I've read Almond's post, my apologies go out to him and my scorn is further heaped on Wizard.

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Wizard

See, Wizard, here's the thing: Almond knows what the hell he's talking about.
 
Jenga is little wooden bricks resting on each other and being pulled out.

WTC was a huge steel superstructure bolted together that was hit by a plane.

The End.
How simplistic! Clearly showing that you did not read a single word of my post, how would you answer the following questions:
1) Do you agree that each floor must be in static equillibrium for a tower to remain stable?
2) Do you agree that the WTC towers and the Jenga tower both contain no ability to dissipate kinetic energy in a way that does not destroy the tower?
3) Do you agree that once collapse begins on a Jenga tower, the total destruction of the tower becomes inevitable?
4) Do you agree that despite the ability to redundantly support each floor of the tower with two wooden blocks, it requires the removal of only one to cause the floor to collapse?
5) Do you agree that you asked me to explain to you why collapse initiation will irrecovably cause the total destruction of the tower?
6) Do you conceed the point that NIST did indeed consider the thermal conductivity of metal in its thermodynamic analysis of the WTC steel?
 
Now that I've read Almond's post, my apologies go out to him and my scorn is further heaped on Wizard.
No apology is necessary. I'm sorry it was such a long post, but I was feeling, uh, verbose when I wrote it. Gravyesque, if you will.
 
Now that I've read Almond's post, my apologies go out to him and my scorn is further heaped on Wizard.

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Wizard​


See, Wizard, here's the thing: Almond knows what the hell he's talking about.

Too much scorn, I think collapse of the above tower is inevitable.

The Almond has compared Jenga to the wtc. I don't care what he knows, it's as ridiculous as Judys tree
 

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