Question for Rolfe (and anyone else)

[Suezoled]

Have you ever in your career treated a horse who has suffered a possible stroke? The vet thinks the horse I have had one; it left the back legs from the pelvis to the hind legs wobbly, although he was able to stand. It's been about 10 months since he had it, and he seems to benefit from his retirement. He's outside all day with other horses, and his coordination has improved. He will never carry another rider again, though.

The onset was sudden; one day he was okay, the next day he was dragging his ankles when he walked, and it was an obvious effort on his part to move and stay balanced. There was no heat, swelling, or sensitivity in the legs. He was in no pain, and his appetite was as greedy as ever.

Just curious if you ever treated a horse like this.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

He might be enjoying his Great English Breakfast at this time or morning, but I'll bump this in case he only reads the most recent posts.

 

[Rolfe]

I recall a long time ago seeing a horse with these signs, attributed to migrating strongyle (worm) larvae possibly in the cervical spinal cord. I'm afraid in that case the owners opted for euthanasia because they'd cancelled the horse's insurance just months before it happened, and an ataxic heavy hunter was considered to be a danger to anyone handling him.

I recall in that case there was short-lived (about a day) sweating over only half the face - there are good neuro-physiological reaons for this related to denervation of adrenergically-stimulated sweat glands. Did this happen anywhere on the body with your horse, that you noticed?

I don't see horses as first-opinion cases these days, and neurology isn't really my subject. However, I know where to ask this question and maybe get an answer.

Get back to you.

Rolfe.

 

[Suezoled]

Hi again Rolfe,
No no excess or unusual sweating patterns. When he came in to eat, I checked the rest of his body to make sure of injury, etc.

My main concern is, he has improved in the year, but I wonder if this could just as suddenly get worse. As long as he is not in pain, and he's given his carrots, I think his quality of life has been pretty good.

I know good vets and doctors don't diagnose a horse. I was just curious about if you have heard or seen anything like this, and what you thought the cause was with your particar case.

Just to keep it in mind.

 

[Rolfe]

My equine practitioner friend remarks that this sort of thing does tend to recur eventually, but he acknowledges that without a definite diagnosis we're really just guessing - and so often a definite diagnosis just isn't practically obtainable.

I think this is in the "who can say?" category, and even if he does deteriorate, that event could still be a long way in the future. So long as he's happy, eating and mobile enough to maintain quality of life, relax and enjoy.

Rolfe.

 

[Suezoled]

I know good vets and doctors don't diagnose a horse. I was just curious about if you have heard or seen anything like this, and what you thought the cause was with your particar case.

erm, sorry. I meant of course a good vet doesn't diagnose sight unseen.

Problem is, I don't know his history. He's about 27 and he's only been working with me for 10 years. I suspect he had something similar before, as he had hip problems before; a kind of "hitching" in his hind legs until he warmed up and was encouraged to put in an effort to carry his rider. He's had that since he was at least 16. The only thing I do know for sure is he is an Arabian, rarely sick, and was beaten around the face by his previous owners (the way he shied so violently when someone raised a hand to pat his forehead). His appetite is great, but his teeth have been giving him problems for about 2 years. Problem is, can't find that problem, either. The vet checks his teeth every 6 months, floats them as necessary, and his incisors are fine. He eats grain, carrots, etc by carefully chewing it, but he chews on hay and grass, and just lets it fall from his mouth. Then the other horses eat what he spit out (ew! Yuck!)

oh, well, thanks for asking for me!

 

[Rolfe]

erm, sorry. I meant of course a good vet doesn't diagnose sight unseen.

Yes, I understood you meant that. And it's dangerous to comment on someone else's patient, too.

But very often it is practically impossible to get a definite diagnosis in this sort of case, and so a general question as to people's previous experience of outcomes in similar circumstances isn't inappropriate.

I still slightly suspect a vascular accident as a result of previous strongyle damage, but that's in the wild guess category. He's a good age, and I hope he stays happy for a long time to come. He may well never deteriorate in the neurological department, we really can't tell. Sounds as if he's very lucky in his present owner.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Another couple of points raised. What colour is he? Any evidence of melanomas? And has the possibility of equine Cushing's disease been considered?

Rolfe.

 

[Aoidoi]

Another couple of points raised. What colour is he? Any evidence of melanomas? And has the possibility of equine Cushing's disease been considered?

Rolfe.

With apologies to our equine friends, this thread has rather reminded me of a far side cartoon with a caption (from memory) "Like most vetirinary students Ted breezed his way through the equine chapter." The picture was a list of conditions and all treatments were listed as "shoot horse."

I take it veterinary medicine has advanced a bit since the old west.

Suezoled, best wishes for your horse.

Edit: idle question... equine medicine? equestrian medicine? What's the correct usage? I should probably just go find a dictionary...

 

[Rolfe]

I take it equestrian medicine has advanced a bit since the old west.

Just a fraction!

Edited to add: Equine medicine. But we know what you mean.

Rolfe.

 

[arcticpenguin]

Another couple of points raised. What colour is he? ...

Heh, heh. That's what the Car Talk guys always ask when they're stumped for an answer.

 

[Suezoled]

Another couple of points raised. What colour is he? Any evidence of melanomas? And has the possibility of equine Cushing's disease been considered?

Rolfe.

He was born dark but had faded to grey ("white" as some people say) when I got to him. No sign of Cushing's (there was a horse who lived to be 40 who had Cushing's. Classic hair growth, thirst, muscle loss, etc). I've checked him over every week for 10 years, and no tumors, ever, at least on the surface.

 

[Suezoled]

With apologies to our equine friends, this thread has rather reminded me of a far side cartoon with a caption (from memory) "Like most vetirinary students Ted breezed his way through the equine chapter." The picture was a list of conditions and all treatments were listed as "shoot horse."

I take it veterinary medicine has advanced a bit since the old west.

Suezoled, best wishes for your horse.

Don't worry. I had the same thoughts, actually. Actually, when one of my friends complains of muscle cramps in her legs, I tell her we have to take her out back and shoot her.

Yes, equine medicine has advanced. Now we do a rain dance, and if that fails, we shoot the horse

 

[The Don]

Equine homeopathy


1) Point fingers at horse....

2) Shout "bang"

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, equine medicine has advanced. Now we do a rain dance, and if that fails, we shoot the horse

There are times....

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Equine homeopathy

1) Point fingers at horse....

2) Shout "bang"

No, an equine vet of my acquaintence has a great little recipe which involves discharging a shotgun into a jar of water....

Actually, there is a homoeopathic book advertised on the Internet which includes in its blurb the information that it contains a gentle method of euthnasia. Unfortunately I can't find anyone who has actually read it, and I'm not about to give these jokers any actual money, so I guess I'll never know.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

He was born dark but had faded to grey ("white" as some people say) when I got to him. No sign of Cushing's (there was a horse who lived to be 40 who had Cushing's. Classic hair growth, thirst, muscle loss, etc). I've checked him over every week for 10 years, and no tumors, ever, at least on the surface.

Obviously, the question about colour was related to the possibility of melanoma. But the history really doesn't sound like that. My pony did have them (mouse dun faded to white, same thing really), and I think that's what he died of - or rather we had to put him down one lovely morning when he was unable to get to his feet - but the signs were considerably different from what you describe.

My pony was also improbably hairy but as he showed no other signs of Cushing's and I wasn't about to test him until I had more of a reason than the coat, if he did have that the melanomas got him first. He was almost 33 though, so he had quite a good innings.

I think the early improvement and subsequent lack of deterioration in your horse are good signs, and I'd guess it might be a one-off thing which may well not recur.

Rolfe.

 

[Suezoled]

...well now he's gone and done it. Saturday evening, after I leave, he gets his hind foot (on the bad side) caught in a fresh hole in the ground. He tugs on it (says the girl who brought him in), and falls in a heap. He's lost some skin on his ankle, but the abrasion is fine. His ankle itself, though, is swollen. It radiates a little heat, but that's not entirely unexpected. While he can put weight on it standing, walking is a chore. So, I threw him into a stall and cleaned the scrape again, and wrapped the ankle.

Stupid stupid horse.

 

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Suezoled
So, I threw him into a stall and cleaned the scrape again, and wrapped the ankle.

Not much more to be done for it, really. If it gets hot, or swells a lot more, or he isn't putting more weight on it by Monday, you may need to get your vet to take a look.

Rolfe.

 

[Suezoled]

*sighs* it's a very real possibility he'll have to be put down. While he can shuffle around on the leg, he's still leaning on one hip more than the other if he stands still. Also, I'm afraid he will fall again, and he won't be able to get back up. It's slick and icy right now, and if it's not icy, it's muddy.* If he recovers some, he'll get the benefit of the doubt, but facing reality, he might not survive the winter.


*I was able to "rent" the stall for a couple days from another horse owner, but he can't stay in there. The stable is full and no one has a stall to spare.