question about homeopathic pills

[poblob14]

"Moonbeams*."
"Diluted moonbeams?"
"Yes."

* No, really.

My god, that's hilarious.

Luna is excellent in sour belchings, especially if tasting of ingesta.

So am I. I should meet this Luna girl.

I also love the fact that moonbeams are only good for pain in the right ovary. I wonder what works for left ovary pain. The sun's rays? Manta rays? Sweet Baby Ray's?

 

[Mojo]

What.
I knew about the ridiculous concentrations, and that they would drop that water on sugar pills. But not about 'grafting'. Good lord.

The grafted pills work just as well as the pills that have had the water dropped on them.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I also love the fact that moonbeams are only good for pain in the right ovary. I wonder what works for left ovary pain. The sun's rays? Manta rays? Sweet Baby Ray's?

Yes, I've found preventative doses of SBR's to be very helpful. No problems with my left ovary since I began. But wash your hands after use, my testies got a bit sticky this one time . . .

 

[P.J. Denyer]

The grafted pills work just as well as the pills that have had the water dropped on them.

Or better (not for the patient, for the real beneficiary of the 'treatment')

Nothing at all
?????????
Profit!

No wasting valuable time on that shaking business.

 

[pakeha]

"Moonbeams*."
"Diluted moonbeams?"
"Yes."

* No, really.

Oh, myyy.

 

[Brian-M]

Possible use for homeopathic pills?

Coffee sweetener.

 

[malicus]

Coffee sweetener.

No no no. You're doing it wrong.

1) Make a cup of coffee, add sugar / cream to taste.

2) place blank pills next to coffee cup for an unspecified length of time

3) ta da! Instant-pill-coffee made to your exacting standards.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

No no no. You're doing it wrong.

1) Make a cup of coffee, add sugar / cream to taste.

2) place blank pills next to coffee cup for an unspecified length of time

3) ta da! Instant-pill-coffee made to your exacting standards.

Nope, you have to dilute the coffee past the point of non existence first and then a drop of the now pure water or alcohol placed on a sugar pill and allowed to completely evaporate. And it will do the opposite of what it would have done undiluted (ie: Caffeine would become a sleeping pill). See, you can try and make it sound silly, but if you follow the proper rules you'll find that actually it's........ well actually it's even sillier.......

 

[malicus]

Nope, you have to dilute the coffee past the point of non existence first and then a drop of the now pure water or alcohol placed on a sugar pill and allowed to completely evaporate. And it will do the opposite of what it would have done undiluted (ie: Caffeine would become a sleeping pill). See, you can try and make it sound silly, but if you follow the proper rules you'll find that actually it's........ well actually it's even sillier.......

I have so much to learn

 

[Reno]

I like it when someone does a real life explanation of the dilution rates up to 60 or 200C...olympic swimming pool, 10 galaxies, entire universe, etc

Go on somebody, do that again

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I have so much to learn

Life is short, learn something useful rather than this!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I like it when someone does a real life explanation of the dilution rates up to 60 or 200C...olympic swimming pool, 10 galaxies, entire universe, etc

Go on somebody, do that again

Try this-:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

The American Physical Society, has noted that since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original substance dissolved in a minimum of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would require a container more than 30,000,000,000 times the size of the Earth.

Oscillococcinum, a 200C product "for the relief of colds and flu-like symptoms," involves "dilutions" that are even more far-fetched. Its "active ingredient" is prepared by incubating small amounts of a freshly killed duck's liver and heart for 40 days. The resultant solution is then filtered, freeze-dried, rehydrated, repeatedly diluted, and impregnated into sugar granules. If a single molecule of the duck's heart or liver were to survive the dilution, its concentration would be 1 in 100200. This huge number, which has 400 zeroes, is vastly greater than the estimated number of molecules in the universe (about one googol, which is a 1 followed by 100 zeroes). In its February 17, 1997, issue, U.S. News & World Report noted that only one duck per year is needed to manufacture the product, which had total sales of $20 million in 1996. The magazine dubbed that unlucky bird "the $20-million duck."

Actually, the laws of chemistry state that there is a limit to the dilution that can be made without losing the original substance altogether. This limit, which is related to Avogadro's number, corresponds to homeopathic potencies of 12C or 24X (1 part in 1024). Hahnemann himself realized that there is virtually no chance that even one molecule of original substance would remain after extreme dilutions. But he believed that the vigorous shaking or pulverizing with each step of dilution leaves behind a "spirit-like" essence—"no longer perceptible to the senses"—which cures by reviving the body's "vital force." Modern proponents assert that even when the last molecule is gone, a "memory" of the substance is retained. This notion is unsubstantiated. Moreover, if it were true, every substance encountered by a molecule of water might imprint an "essence" that could exert powerful (and unpredictable) medicinal effects when ingested by a person.

 

[Reno]

Thanks P.J.

I do enjoy how homeopathic bleevers squirm when this is explained to them, then pull out the old 'water has a memory' routine. I then ask them why dilute to 60C if there's nothing in the 30C already? This is usually the point when they tell me that I can belive what I like, but they know it works because their uncle Harry had arthritis and whenever he takes his homeopills he feels better. So there nyah nyah.

 

[Cuddles]

Try this-:

...freshly killed duck... impregnated...

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Thanks P.J.

I do enjoy how homeopathic bleevers squirm when this is explained to them, then pull out the old 'water has a memory' routine. I then ask them why dilute to 60C if there's nothing in the 30C already? This is usually the point when they tell me that I can belive what I like, but they know it works because their uncle Harry had arthritis and whenever he takes his homeopills he feels better. So there nyah nyah.

I find a lot of the casual 'bleevers' don't even really know what it is, they have this confused homeopathic/herbal/ancient knowledge/big-pharma-bad-liars thing going on and I'm pretty sure that when you explain it, most people who think it works believe that the explanation is so obviously impossible that you must be lying. After all you can get it on the NHS, it can't be that daft!

Of course even if you can convince them that they are not the same thing you then have that whole issue of the "the problem with homeopathy is that it has no active ingredients/the problem with hebalism is that it may have active ingredients but but you have no idea at what concentration".

 

[Fishstick]

In that order?

 

[Brian-M]

Nope, you have to dilute the coffee past the point of non existence first and then a drop of the now pure water or alcohol placed on a sugar pill and allowed to completely evaporate. And it will do the opposite of what it would have done undiluted (ie: Caffeine would become a sleeping pill). See, you can try and make it sound silly, but if you follow the proper rules you'll find that actually it's........ well actually it's even sillier.......

Hey, you forgot a step. The dilution has to be done in a series of stages, with the jar containing each step of the solution ritualistically slapped against a leather pad ten times.

(Seriously, this is actually part of the process. But some people use their hand, a bible or a shoe in place of the leather pad.)

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Hey, you forgot a step. The dilution has to be done in a series of stages, with the jar containing each step of the solution ritualistically slapped against a leather pad ten times.

(Seriously, this is actually part of the process. But some people use their hand, a bible or a shoe in place of the leather pad.)

How could I have missed that out. If you don't include the scientific horse hair cushion slapping no wonder it sounded silly!

Of course it's often done by machine these days as it's now a multi billion dollar industry. Like big pharma without the real medicines.

Something else worth mentioning is that it is common (and acceptable) not to pipette measured doses of 'solution' to a seprate container for each dilution, but rather to empty the container and refill it with solvent for each serial dilution on the basis that the right amount of the previous dilution will be retained.

The process of creating a remedy looks to anyone other than a homeopath very much like washing up.

 

[jdc324]

I love Grafting, it's like after water memory and evaporated water memory on sugar a group of homeopaths got together to see if they could completely abandon any possible link to even a pseudoscientific healing mechanism and still flog their BS to the marks.... Apparently though they can.

It's always a good one when talking to a proponent though, they either have to show their own ignorance of the technique, evade or admit to something that 'almost' any third party will see as a con if the ground hasn't been sufficiently prepared.

If you like grafting, how about homeopathic paper remedies?

I remembered the idea of the paper remedy, so I wrote down my constitutional remedy and the potency one higher than my regular potency, placed in under a plastic cup and left it for ten minutes. I then drank the water and within ½ hour my symptoms subsided much to my surprise.

And here's someone explaining how they work:

A word vibrates, and a word with the name of the remedies vibrates too and programms this vibration into the water. A thought is also vibration.

And here's some reassurance that orgone / orgonite won't be an issue:

Homeopathic remedies come in various forms – granule, pellet or liquid form is how we usually buy them. But you can also invoke the energy of a remedy by simply writing the name of it on a piece of paper. We call that a “paper remedy.” (Not everyone is comfortable with that yet, so remedies that you can actually put in your mouth are still available). But the paper remedy is essentially the same information being conveyed. And in that case, it’s easy to see that putting orgonite or any external energy source in physical proximity to the piece of paper wouldn’t change the energy of the information contained in it.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

To be fair, though, paper remedies are seen as controversial and fringe in homeopathic circles. Everything else in this thread is mainstream.

That's the thing that's so great about telling people what's actually true about homeopathy - you don't have to make anything up or go looking at the fringes, as the core beliefs are just so bonkers - and each one is stupider than the last. All you need to do to thoroughly discredit it is to say "this is mainstream homeopathy" and explain it honestly and clearly..