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Quebec Student Protests.

lomiller said:
For the record I think the students protests are unrealistic. Even with the increase they are paying nowhere near what most otehr people pay for a university education and nowhere near the cost of providing that education. That said...

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Have you seen the dollar amounts they're protesting over? The government wants a $250/yr increase; the "students" want a $200/yr increase. We're arguing over fifty bucks a year.

Storm the Bastille!

I remember this kind of thing happening years ago when I was in university and it never made any sense to me then either. It's obviously a political issue limited largely to Quebec. The "new Quebec" has begun to move on from the separatist issue and socialism there has been on the decline following the global trend so the only thing left is to make a big deal over $50. They could probably pick up that extra folding money by distributing flyers for the ADQ/CAQ.
 
Madalch said:
So if the education's worth getting, it's worth paying whatever price it takes, even if you do starve to death half-way through your third year. And if your parents can't get you a loan, then you were destined to wait tables for life, anyway.

That sounds a lot like what Ralph Klein would say.
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Minus the slurring.
 
Stacko said:
Protesters pledged to target Grand Prix weekend.
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That's CLAC: http://www.clac-montreal.net/en.

The money for CLAC and CLASSE is all coming from QPIRG.

Here's a site explaining to students how they are unwittingly financing the very groups out to ruin their quality post-secondary experiences:

http://qpirgoptout.com/

Essentially the way to stop this stuff from happening in Quebec (and it only happens there at this level) is to either aggressively promote voluntary opting out or to demand accountability from the programme administrators. It's too easy in a group like this to take student funds and spend them on pet projects that in no way reflect the values of the contributors.

Even though other PIRGs aren't as overtly activist as the Quebec branch, the one in Alberta specifically promotes the radical Palestine Solidarity Network, something most students would have second thoughts about if they really looked into how their money was being spent. Naturally, the Alberta version peppers its site with stories about maintaining their library and helping First Nations people in the province.
 
Caper said:
Are you a Quebec student?
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No, why?

Davidlpf said:
Just simply realize how good they have it in the first place.
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BS. If we're going for comparisons with other nations, why not Scandinavia, where it's free?

Segnosaur said:
First of all, keep in mind that its just not the neighboring country that "has it worse"... the average tuition in other provinces is also higher than in Quebec. Yet students there have been paying those higher fees for years. (And without the type of protests that are going on in Quebec.)
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So? My point stands. Just replace the "neighbouring country" in my sentence with "other provinces".

Why exactly do you think Quebec students should be entitled to higher education subsidies that (for example) students in Ontario? Are Quebec students incompetent (so they can't handle the higher costs)? Or should we be putting them on some sort of pedestal? (Behold the Quebec student! We should give him everything they want!)
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:rolleyes: Yeah, that's exactly what's going on.

Ah yes, lets toss around the "fascism" label, like that is some sort of magic talisman.
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Because this time it's fitting.

Even if Bill 78 goes too far in trying to fix various problems caused by the strikes, labeling it "fascism" is basically just empty rhetoric... it minimizes the evil of real fascism and makes those applying the label look like wingnuts.
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BS. The bill completely restricts free speech and takes pretty much all power away from protesters. Even lawyers are outraged that such a bill passed. It's really that bad. No, it's not concentration camps and genocides, but that doesn't mean it's not totalitarian anyway.

So, just how do you propose the Quebec government handle situations like:
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Not with Bill 78, that's for sure. What, because there are "problems", this means any kind of anti-free speech law is justified, even if it does nothing to counter the original problems? Get real.

Ummm... why should we need any more arguments than that?

Why exactly are you assuming that the amount of subsidies given to the Quebec students is necessarily right?
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Because it's a bogus argument. Hey, why not increase the tuition everywhere across the country by thousands of dollars? It's still lower than in the USA, stop complaining, bend over and take it! See how the argument falls flat.

Yeah, not like there wasn't vandalism, violence, and general public disruption/destruction before bill 78 was brought in.

Oh wait! There was!
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Oh yeah, terrible destruction, Montreal is a wasteland of burning cars, raped women and looted stores, please call in the army and NATO, it's completely out of control... :rolleyes: Oh wait, nope, just a few very minor and isolated incidents and it's generally very peaceful. Oopsie. Nevermind that, let's install draconian measures to completely curb the right to protest freely. Because we, the government, are incompetent morons who cannot handle the situation in any other way. And oh wait, it's not even working anyway, and now even people who didn't support the students are now wearing red squares and slamming casseroles in the streets to protest. Guess why.
 
Morrigan said:
BS. If we're going for comparisons with other nations, why not Scandinavia, where it's free?
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The Quebec goernment can't afford to hold the price of tuition at the same levels or start lowering the price at the moment. Plus my understanding is that some of the universities want to udate their buildings or build new building which require more money. Most of the rest of the country the tuition is much higher, so the Quebec students have light even compared to other canadian students.
 
Davidlpf said:
Plus my understanding is that some of the universities want to udate their buildings or build new building which require more money.
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There's never been infrastructure money in renovating, the envelopes are always labeled "new buildings", except when the real estate market collapses, then they suddenly scrape some money to partially renovate the neglected old buildings just enough so that they don't fall apart for another 5-10 years.

Speaking of new buildings, there's UQAM's infamous Îlot Voyageur, which had to be bailed out by the taxpayers. This financial fiasco was the brilliant idea of university admins and private interests. A real success that was, it's only logical to make the students pay for it, right?
 
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Certain Scandinavia countries continually come up in the free tuition debate. What is so special about these countries that allows them to have completely free tuition?

If we are going to examine whether free tuition is even a possibility a full accounting of countries that have successfully implemented free tuition policies and countries that have failed to successfully implement free tuition policies needs to be thoroughly examined.
 
Jorghnassen said:
There's never been infrastructure money in renovating, the envelopes are always labeled "new buildings", except when the real estate market collapses, then they suddenly scrape some money to partially renovate the neglected old buildings just enough so that they don't fall apart for another 5-10 years.
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Thanks for the infomation. The underlying meaning of my statement is that univesties are expensive things to operate and they need more funds.
Speaking of new buildings, there's UQAM's infamous Îlot Voyageur, which had to be bailed out by the taxpayers. This financial fiasco was the brilliant idea of university admins and private interests. A real success that was, it's only logical to make the students pay for it, right?
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either that or let the university to fail finicially or help them along in tough times and the goernment decided to help them. Yes their was a lot greed in the real estate market for years and now everyone is paying for it one way or another.
 
Morrigan said:
BS. If we're going for comparisons with other nations, why not Scandinavia, where it's free?
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The Quebec government's budget is not formed in Stockholm. The protesters are going about this in entirely the wrong way and they're going to lose because of it. The correct way to reverse an unpopular expenditure is by getting your own political representatives elected.

Of course this has never been in the interests of the radicals who are leading the protests.

Morrigan said:
Nevermind that, let's install draconian measures to completely curb the right to protest freely. Because we, the government, are incompetent morons who cannot handle the situation in any other way. And oh wait, it's not even working anyway, and now even people who didn't support the students are now wearing red squares and slamming casseroles in the streets to protest. Guess why.
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This is a derail of the original reasons for the protests. Bill 78 deserves its own discussion thread but it cannot be tolerated here as a talking point.

Decent law-abiding Quebeckers are flocking in droves to support Charest, even if he doesn't deserve it, because the student are increasingly engaging in objectionable behaviour such as pepper-spraying outdoor cafe patrons, delivering Nazi salutes, and lighting bonfires in the middle of streets.

Keep in mind that all of this is over a net variance in position of $50 a year. Unlike what you've been suggesting about the students demanding free tuition, their position is in reality extremely close to what the government had budgeted all along. So, if it's not about money, exactly what are the hooligans of CLAC doing all this for? Do you even know who CLAC is and what they stand for?
 
lopeyschools said:
Certain Scandinavia countries continually come up in the free tuition debate. What is so special about these countries that allows them to have completely free tuition?

If we are going to examine whether free tuition is even a possibility a full accounting of countries that have successfully implemented free tuition policies and countries that have failed to successfully implement free tuition policies needs to be thoroughly examined.
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It's a budgeting choice. You could easily make it free in Canada tomorrow if eligibility was based only on testing.

Otherwise it's a red herring because CLASSE is not asking for free tuition.
 
Beerina said:
Screw that. I paid $4700/year as in-state at U-Mich in the late '80s.
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I notice it's been crickets from the usual cranks since presented with the facts about who is really operating these "protests" (hint: it's not paying students at Quebec universities).
 
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