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Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Vikram said:
I'm assuming you are one of them.

Yes they might have. And they also might have been simply talking through their hats. Any evidence that the "ancient mentionings" have verifiable claims hidden somewhere? We'll talk after you have proof.

Kumar, you are here talking about one of the great intellectual cop-outs of Hinduism.

To everyone unacquainted with the concept of "today's destructive phase", here's a little primer about this aspect of Hindu mythology:

According to Hinduism, there are four ages(yugas), out of which the fourth age 'Kaliyuga' is currently in progress. The first three ages were ages of great happiness and knowledge, while the current age is an age of ignorance and evil. It is claimed that a few hundred thousand years or so down the line, the world will be destroyed by Shiva and the cycle of the four yugas will be begun once again - in other words, the universe will undergo a cosmic rebooting.

Of course, as is the bane of all religions, Hindus have accepted these wonderful ficitonal Tolkeinesque literary constructs as depictions of reality. Hence the truly religious ones believe that since this is the 'Kaliyuga', the gods do not manifest themselves to humans anymore and the evil noose of doubt and ignorance strengthens its hold over the populace. Which is why no new knowledge can be obtained any more - we are all stuck in this horrifying dizzy spiral towards destruction, and the study of the sacred texts of the ancients are the only means by which we can achieve salvation.

Gee! What a neat explanation! "The reason why the existence of God can't be proven to you is because you have been born a few hundred thousand years too late. Also, you might want to stop all your experiments into neuroscience and particle physics. The answers are all there in the Vedas and your microscopes and accelerators are worthless."
Click to expand...

Whether Big bang theory is somewhat conversion of this yuga theory?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Kumar said:
Whether Big bang theory is somewhat conversion of this yuga theory?
Click to expand...
No.

The Big Bang theory developed from noticing that all galaxies appeared to be moving away from each other and then extrapolating this back to a point in time when they would all be close.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Kumar said:
Whether Big bang theory is somewhat conversion of this yuga theory?
Click to expand...
No.

According to the Yuga theory, there are 4 Yugas in every Mahayuga. All four yugas had humans in it. If you decide to equate it with the Big Bang Theory, then that would mean that there were humans existing right from the point of the Big Bang, which is just nonsense. The big bang took place 15-20 billion years ago. Even the most primitive protohumans have not existed for more than 8 million years.
 
varwoche said:
Ah, the small touches. Speaking of air of authenticity courtesy of an English accent...

Here is JZ's web site. Gotta love that old fashioned font she uses on the navigation menu.
Click to expand...

Urgh! :o The music is fighting with Rage Against the Machine's Bombtrack I'm listening to. :D
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Vikram said:
No.

According to the Yuga theory, there are 4 Yugas in every Mahayuga. All four yugas had humans in it. If you decide to equate it with the Big Bang Theory, then that would mean that there were humans existing right from the point of the Big Bang, which is just nonsense. The big bang took place 15-20 billion years ago. Even the most primitive protohumans have not existed for more than 8 million years.
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Yuga's can be in-between stages of two Big bangs. Moreover, what was there in the begining of first yuga, is not very clear. Anyway, what about "Pralaya" by Lord Shiva in this respect?

This Sanskrit term, from great (Skt., maha) and dissolution (Skt., pralaya), hints at the eventual breakdown of the universe and death of all its inhabitants - more or less anvisioned as a collapse into a black hole from which, with a big bang, a new one will arise destined to go through the same cycles of becoming and being and dissolving once more.

http://www.yoniversum.nl/dakini/yugas.html
http://www.namaste.it/kundalini/kundalini_eng/yuga.html
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Kumar said:
Yuga's can be in-between stages of two Big bangs. Moreover, what was there in the begining of first yuga, is not very clear. Anyway, what about "Pralaya" by Lord Shiva in this respect?
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Your own link says that a single cycle of yugas is 4.5 million years. Are you trying to say that there's a big bang every 4.5 million years? Are you trying to say that the last big bang must have taken place less than 4.5 million years ago? If you are, let me tell you that all fossil records and geological evidence show that you're wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present Kumar, the Hindu Creationist!
 
Why Oh Why do people believe that just because someone said something a long time ago that it is true? Does our understanding not progress with the ages? What does 'ancient' have to do with 'veracity'? People used to believe that frogs were made spontaneously out of water and mud. Should we believe this because it's older than biology? What about Philogeston Chemistry? Are our periodic tables false because they are newer than the 'four humors' the Greeks believed in? I'm sorry...I just don't get it.
 
OK, lets play with this...

Lets suppose there is some sort of cataclysm each 4.5ma...

Ooops, there´s absolutely no evidences in the fossil record of the presence of Homo sapiens 4.5ma, 9ma, 13.5ma, 18ma ... 450 ma ... regression continues untill earliest (microscopic) fossil records.

BTW, how can one be sure that there were other "big bangs - big crunches" cycles before? Probably I am not update with cosmology, but I read a couple of articles suggesting that there will be no "big crunch", just a slow fading...

Oh, the great absolute wisdom of the Ancient Ones...

The Earth is flat...
Subterranean winds create volcanoes...
Giant salamanders or catfishes moving in the underground cause earthquakes...
There are four elements...
Quartz is old ice that no longer melts...
[add your example here]

Oh, yes, they were practical people, democratically kept knoweledge away from the average commoner...
 
What part of Om don't you understand?

A word in defense of Hindu cosmology. (Vikram will keep me straight here; Kumar will post something incomprehensible.)

Those guys working as long ago as 1200 BC did pretty well to posit a cyclical universe. They were working almost without facts, certainly without sophisticated observations, and yet they came up with an Explanation for Everything that's plausible enough to deserve serious consideration to this day. (If there's enough matter in the universe it will eventually collapse, and after zero elapsed time - because time will have come to an end - a new expansion can begin.) Their notion of recurring yugas is in keeping with the general Hindu assumption that everything happens repeatedly. Probably no other thinkers in the world at that time would have come up with the notion of the death and rebirth of the universe. They thought the universe came out of a cosmic egg; we think it came out of a singularity. Not bad, old pandits!

I like to think that if they were around today they could get up to speed pretty quickly. They were trying their damnedst not to be woowoos.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Vikram said:
Your own link says that a single cycle of yugas is 4.5 million years. Are you trying to say that there's a big bang every 4.5 million years? Are you trying to say that the last big bang must have taken place less than 4.5 million years ago? If you are, let me tell you that all fossil records and geological evidence show that you're wrong.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I present Kumar, the Hindu Creationist!
Click to expand...

Just try to calculate again.

Take help from;

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/rounds.htm

"By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration
of Brahma's one day. And such also is the duration of his night."

A yuga is 4,320,000 solar years so one of Lord Brahma's days is
4,320,000,000 years! He also, like us lives for about 100 years so
you can calculate the life-span of the universe. It's a long time.
His planet is situated in such a way that during this 4,320,000,000
year period there is continual daylight. At the end of his day
there is a partial devistation of the universe. This takes the form
of an inundation. The whole lower and middle planetary systems are
flooded leaving only the upper planets (where Lord Brahma and the
other demigods live) untouched. As the sun is situated in the
middle of the universe it is also covered with water and everything
in the universe becomes dark. That's the end of Brahma's day. As
the waters gradually subside the sun starts to shine again and
morning comes for Lord Brahma and he, and the other demigods wake
up to clean up the mess and set the ball rolling for another
thousand yuga's.

There are also two other types of pralaya's (devistations). One
occurs at the death of Brahma, called the maha pralaya (great
devistation), and that is the end of this universe. The other
occurs (sometimes or always depending on the commentators-It's not
completly agreed upon) at the end of the life of Manu. Manu is the
chief progenator (person in charge of generating population) in the
universe so he is called "the father of mankind". Undoubtedly the
word "man" has been derived from "Manu".

The Manu's don't reign for as long as Lord Brahma. There are
fourteen Manu's in every day of Brahma's life and a manvantara is
the period in which one Manu rules. Each Manu's period last
seventy-two yugas (72 * 4,320,000). Manu is the author of the
"Manu-samhita", the codes or laws meant to be obeyed by mankind.

As a matter of interest the current Manu is Vaivasvata Manu, he is
the seventh Manu in the current day of Lord Brahma. So Brahma is
now about 50 or half-way through his life.
http://krishna.org/sudarsana/archive/msg00040.html
Click to expand...
 
I SEE THE LIGHT!!!

Yes, everything makes sense now...:cs:

Water flooded the space eons ago. Now folks, remember that in EP II "seismic charges" were used in space combat. Since Star Wars happened a long, long time ago, there was water left in space, hence the use of the charges!:cs:

Amanita matutina tea anyone?

Where are the fossil remains of such long-term existence?

Lets add to the Ancient Wisdom list that the Sun is at the centre of the universe. Ovious an error, since *I* am at the centre of the universe. Actually *I AM* the centre of the universe.

[edited to add]
Sackett:

I remember reading that cosmologists think, based on present data, that the expansion rate is too big to allow a "big crunch", even when dark matter is taken in to account. There were also issues related to the cosmological constant. Am I so outdated?:(

And yes, incomprehensible...
 
Re: What part of Om don't you understand?

sackett said:
A word in defense of Hindu cosmology. (Vikram will keep me straight here; Kumar will post something incomprehensible.)

Those guys working as long ago as 1200 BC did pretty well to posit a cyclical universe. They were working almost without facts, certainly without sophisticated observations, and yet they came up with an Explanation for Everything that's plausible enough to deserve serious consideration to this day. (If there's enough matter in the universe it will eventually collapse, and after zero elapsed time - because time will have come to an end - a new expansion can begin.) Their notion of recurring yugas is in keeping with the general Hindu assumption that everything happens repeatedly. Probably no other thinkers in the world at that time would have come up with the notion of the death and rebirth of the universe. They thought the universe came out of a cosmic egg; we think it came out of a singularity. Not bad, old pandits!

I like to think that if they were around today they could get up to speed pretty quickly. They were trying their damnedst not to be woowoos.
Click to expand...
You're quite right here. I always keep on telling people that accepting the writings of the ancients at face value without examining them under the microscope of current scientific knowledge is the greatest insult possible to their intellectual spirit.
 
I am not absolute, but it looks many ideas as of now, can be taken/stolen & re-arranged fully, partly or differantly in today's language/s from ancient idications.

Just tell me, suppose a person meditate & concentrate(alike hypnotism learning) very very deeply & dedicated for very very long time in good atmosphere with prolonged age, how much can he enhance & improve the capacity of his senses?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Kumar said:
Just try to calculate again.
Click to expand...
You know what - why don't YOU do the calculations and present them to us?

Remember to support any conclusions you reach with correlative evidence from the little thing we call REALITY!
 
I signed up on JZ's mailing list, as the OP says, an eternity ago. (Thank you, next week I'll be appearing at the Yelm Comedy Club.) I estimate eternity at ~ 4 years, during which time I have regularly received mailings.

I started this thread a couple of weeks ago, and have received my first Ramtha correspondence since that time, from Audrey at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment.
RSE is in the process of cleaning up computer records and we would like to know if you would like to remain on our mailing list for the Newsletter and any other mailers.

Please call 1-800-347-0439 or email audreyw@ramtha.com. If we do not hear from you by April 30th, your name will be removed.
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Is this payback time? Did Ramtha peer into my depraved soul and order this purge?

Stayeth tuned.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Vikram said:
You know what - why don't YOU do the calculations and present them to us?

Remember to support any conclusions you reach with correlative evidence from the little thing we call REALITY!
Click to expand...

You might have heard about "Divya Dristhi"--said as indefinite or extreme visual/feeling power. Could our ancient learned ones, had seen by this DD even the quantum states & described/indicated accordingly?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Quantum physics per an ancient entity

Kumar said:
You might have heard about "Divya Dristhi"--said as indefinite or extreme visual/feeling power. Could our ancient learned ones, had seen by this DD even the quantum states & described/indicated accordingly?
Click to expand...
No.

If they had seen anything real, then it would be very easy for you to give proof. But you haven't been able to give any proof.
 
I just saw the movie. It was not as bad as I thought regarding this thread. I couldnt see any reference to this ramtha character. True, it might be just a way to "soflty" introduce "ramanthism" to the viewers, but thats about it.

Yes, there are misrepresented things in the movie (I dont want to write spoilers), and the general view might not be the "standard" academical view, but it is not that bad.

As for this woman, the ramtha channeler, I understand why she has some followers, she seems have what is called "charisma", she appear to speak with authority and, to say the truth, I think it would be nice to talk to her.

I never saw a reference about this "ramtha entity" giving her teachings in QM, but of course, as I dont know anything about the movement, I can be wrong, maybe this "entity" is "really" talking about QM?? Oh well, I would expect such and old "entity" to talk about something we dont know, like QM if she were living in the 17 century or so.

In any case, of course this ramtha thing is 100% wooism, and many of the views in the movie just plain naive, or distorted, but, you all have to consider, that this might be the only approach some people will have to QM and science in general! Who knows? maybe this will attract some of them to real science. :p
_______
EDIT:

I just saw the ramtha site, total and complete woo. She is charismatic, like any sect or religion founder, and Im always astonished by the power this kind of people can have among some humans. It is an interesting phenomena.
 
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