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Quantum Entanglement

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Tez said:
What does this mean? Do you mean that entangled particles might pop out of the vacuum?

Am I correct in assuming that two entangled particles become disentangled if one of them has an interaction with a third particle? The universe isn't one giant entanglement, is it?

~~ Paul

the answer to the first question is "yes", if you dont believe in many worlds interpretation (its interpretation dependent, and thus I can really say definitively one way or the other). THe anser to the second is yes - any observer appropriately accelerating through the vacuum can detect a particle thats entangled with any other point in space time (Unruh radiation). Experimentally infeasible, but thats what standard quantum field theory tells us....
 
I regret having irritated you. But I submit that if we're not simply talking about QM as in how effectively it describes reality, but are concerned about what it implies about the nature of reality, then by definition we are introducing philosophical considerations.

BTW could you tell me what philosophical framework science is based upon? How is this justified?

Stop crapping on this thread. If you really want to have this conversation (which I rather doubt), then start a new thread for it.

Dr. Stupid
 
Tez said:
the answer to the first question is "yes", if you dont believe in many worlds interpretation (its interpretation dependent, and thus I can really say definitively one way or the other). THe anser to the second is yes - any observer appropriately accelerating through the vacuum can detect a particle thats entangled with any other point in space time (Unruh radiation). Experimentally infeasible, but thats what standard quantum field theory tells us....
Is zero point energy anything to do with this?

(We really need a "questions for Tez" thread. ;) )
 
Stimpson J. Cat said:


Stop crapping on this thread. If you really want to have this conversation (which I rather doubt), then start a new thread for it.

Dr. Stupid

I feel I should warn you that there is a new civility rule.
 
Tez, Tez, Tez, you're making my head hurt.
THe anser to the second is yes - any observer appropriately accelerating through the vacuum can detect a particle thats entangled with any other point in space time (Unruh radiation). Experimentally infeasible, but thats what standard quantum field theory tells us....
Are you answering yes to my question about whether two particles become disentangled when on interacts with a third particle, or to my question about whether the universe is one giant entanglement? I presume the latter. What is the answer to the first question?

I understand that I can detect a particle entangled with some other particle anywhere/when else. The question is whether all particles are entangled with one another. I presume they are not.

~~ Paul
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Tez, Tez, Tez, you're making my head hurt.
Are you answering yes to my question about whether two particles become disentangled when on interacts with a third particle, or to my question about whether the universe is one giant entanglement? I presume the latter. What is the answer to the first question?

I understand that I can detect a particle entangled with some other particle anywhere/when else. The question is whether all particles are entangled with one another. I presume they are not.

~~ Paul

sorry paul - replied in a rush. I was answering questions 3 and 4 of your post, not one and two!!

Now I'm somewhat confused about the questions. Re: The universe being giant entanglement - the answer is yes if you believe MWI, since then measuring a particle does not disentangle it, it simply entangles you.

Re the vacuum - the point I was trying to make is that entanglement is endemic, there is some entanglement between any two points in spacetime (if Unruh is correct). Thus, for fundamental physics, we need to worry about entanglement much more than if it were a relatively infrequent phenomenon only ever caused by chimps with opposing thumbs in multimillion dollar labs...

THis allows for many weird things. For example (assuming inflation is correct) there are causally disconnected parts of the universe. However two observers from those regions can accelerate towards each other, and prior to ever coming in causal contact, they can violate a Bell inequality. (They will need to meet up later in order to compare the correlations in the data). I only realised this a few weeks ago, and have started a large argument amongst several physicists about whether this is really true. It is if you accept the formalism of QM directly. However, in QM we use space and time as a background - and yet real physical objects must be used to co-ordinatize your spacetime. THus I feel that this scenario I just described might be fatally flawed, for technical reasons to do with each co-ordinatizing their spacetime.

Science is an endless series of quibbles....
 
So should we be wary of pooh-poohing the woo-woos when they say that everything is entangled and use that to explain certain things? It becomes a question of whether the entanglement can have macroscopic effects, under what conditions, and whether these conditions can be consciously controlled.

~~ Paul
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
So should we be wary of pooh-poohing the woo-woos when they say that everything is entangled and use that to explain certain things? It becomes a question of whether the entanglement can have macroscopic effects, under what conditions, and whether these conditions can be consciously controlled.

~~ Paul

absolutely paul - i have never pooh-poohed them for this overall picture. Fortunately most of them are so ignorant you can dismiss what they say as babble - they simply parrot phrases they dont understand. However the whole point of my phrasing the GHZ story in terms of psychics and Jandi was specifically to point out how a sceptical application of "sensible thinking" and occams razor etc might lead you completely astray.
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Tez said:
What does this mean? Do you mean that entangled particles might pop out of the vacuum?

Am I correct in assuming that two entangled particles become disentangled if one of them has an interaction with a third particle? The universe isn't one giant entanglement, is it?

~~ Paul
Taz You answered yes,
I'm aware of the spontaneous generation of particles, do you mean to say that this entails generation particle pairs? Only? What I've read seems to indicate that the introduction of a "new" in "this " universe particle seems to mean the destruction of an equal type of object. (i.e. electrons, protons and positrons).

BTW heres an interesting paper in RE The GHZ example, interesting not only because it provides proof ( if you enjoy headaches)) also because of the Department of the Univerisety that the author represents .
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...ter/papers/GHZ.pdf+GHZ+quantum&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
Tez said:
What does this mean? Do you mean that entangled particles might pop out of the vacuum?

Am I correct in assuming that two entangled particles become disentangled if one of them has an interaction with a third particle? The universe isn't one giant entanglement, is it?

~~ Paul
Taz You answered yes,
I'm aware of the spontaneous generation of particles, do you mean to say that this entails generation particle pairs? Only? What I've read seems to indicate that the introduction of a "new" in "this " universe particle seems to mean the destruction of an equal type of object. (i.e. electrons, protons and positrons).

BTW heres an interesting paper in RE The GHZ example, interesting not only because it provides proof ( if you enjoy headaches)) also because of the Department of the Univerisety that the author represents .
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...ter/papers/GHZ.pdf+GHZ+quantum&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
 
Let me reply to the first half of your post Till, the second half is obviously the necessarily generated antiparticle ;)

Unfortunately you read my answer as pertaining to the first and second of Pauls questions, whereas they actually pertained to questions 3 and 4 in the second paragraph.

Re the generation of particles from the vacuum: Its somewhat unclear to me the extent to which reality should be ascribed such virtual particles, since they are not operationally observable. It turns out that the equations describing their effect are such that you can always remove the vacuum fields by using shwinger's source theory and similar tricks. These tricks are less intuitive, but since they exist, and since the things they refer to are, as I mentioned, not directly observable, one has to be careful. Even the Casimir effect, one of the classic demonstrations of vacuum fluctuations in action, can be explained without recourse to the mysterious little buggers.

Be that as it may, an accelerating observer observes what the inertial observer sees as empty space as full of real particles, and these particles are entangled with others elsewhere in the universe.

Personally I find it useful to believe in little virtual particles popping in and out around me. Means I'm never lonely!

Finally: There are a few philosophers doing great physics. It is often a great place to go when looking for clarification on what we do or dont understand about a theory. I often try and grab papers by Rob Clifton or Hans Halvorsen for example, if I'm trying to get into a new subject. That said, a lot of them are doing bunk, and many of them dabble in physics with little understanding. I go to 1 or 2 philosophy conferences a year, but I pick and choose them VERY carefully...
 
Yes, I agree with your observation about resorting to changing rulesets to accommodate new theory. Seems tho as to make the new postulate fit , one must prune other accepted methods/theory, does seem like a rabbit in the hat trick.

As for the Philosopher's poaching in territories physic, I thought it was funny as one of the respondents in the thread said that this was not the place for those meanderings.
 
Tez:
Rob Clifton..no slouch he. Spent a few hours reading some papers by him (and with others) , easier on the mind then directly assaulting the abstruse math of the physicist. I see many nights of warm scotch and cigar ash on the K-board. As for Hans Halvorsen could not find any reference except to Christmas and a chemist?? Spelling maybe?

Tez:" Even the Casimir effect, one of the classic demonstrations of vacuum fluctuations in action, can be explained without recourse to the mysterious little buggers."

Isn't Casimir tho confined to a local effect of virtual photons ? Whereas the spontainious generation I have read about involves "actual" particles , in fact the experiential method(s) used in demonstrating Casimir seems that one could attribute the "presents " of these virtual photons to Cherenkov radiation rather then random popping of unannounced visitors?

( The point I'm alluding to is the spontainious appearance of a nutty particle, that for some reason had sudden inflationary tendencies , which in turn led Us to this discussion)

I've already bitten off more then I can chew, but do you have any grasp (or thoughts )of the "negative gravity" concept that I've read about lately ...seems to harken back to the mitchelson-morley experiment and the Aether..which in turn has a direct bearing on Einstien SRT?

I realize that this may appear to be hubris but I am interested in the enterprise of learning for it's own sake. I appreciate ( as I'm sure the board members do as well) Your efforts to answer and Your depth of knowledge.

P.S Shwinger relies on pre-requsites and math I do not posses so I can hardly peruse it topically . I will attempt to understand it in the long run
 
Till, I cant really work out any explicit questions from your post!

Negative gravity - yes I mathematically "understand" how a negative pressure actually gives a cosmological constant which cause repulsion - but I dont think anyone really understands what this means in terms of the quantum fields which are presumably causing this. I have a few unpublished ideas on it..

Youre right - its Halvorson - hes at princeton.
 
Tez:

I will try to be more clear
There are two questions actually.

1-The spontaneous particle generation question . Of late there is speculation that the original singularity could have been one of these "spontaneously generated" particles which then followed the normally accepted (BB)progression of inflation, expansion, ect. . Do you find this fanciful fiction or do You think there a modicum of truth there?

2-The question of "Dark Energy"(aka negative gravity). The MM experiment was to provide evidence of "The Aether" frame, the frame of absolute rest. The experiment produced a null result. (many consider the experiment to be flawed ). This led Einstein to produce STR's first postulate, "No particular object in the universe is suitable as an absolute frame of reference that is at rest with respect to space. " Now with the discovery of this apparently universally present background force it appears that the at rest plane can exist. If that is true, what effect does that imply with respect to STR?
 
1. Its quite plausible - if you read Guth's "the inflationary universe" he gives a very good overview of why. It also does not require particularly esoteric quantum mechanics. Yes- the gravitational field does have a "negative energy" which is essentially what allows the inflationary model to work (since you must balance the positive energy of the matter around us with something!).

2. Since the dark energy is homogenous and isotropic it doesnt in any way affect STR - it doesnt provide a background absolute frame per se...
 

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