"Quagmire" morphs into "A Very Sucessful Effort"

rikzilla

Ninja wave: Atomic fire-breath ninja
rikzilla
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Aug 3, 2001
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President Carter munches humble pie...says: "Mmmmm". Is American leftist defeatism finally defeated??

Former President Jimmy Carter, who predicted that elections in Iraq would fail and in the past year described the Bush administration's policy there as a quagmire, this week ended 10 days of silence to declare the historic Iraqi vote "a very successful effort."
"I hope that we'll have every success in Iraq," Mr. Carter said in a CNN interview. "And that election, I think, was a surprisingly good step forward."
The Nobel Peace Prize winner's comments on Wednesday contradicted his September assertion that the Iraq elections could not be held by January and ended a period during which the Georgia Democrat's failure to comment prompted one critic to gloat about the election success "shaming him into silence."
Last year, in venues ranging from CNN to National Public Radio, Mr. Carter predicted that Iraq would not be ready for a January election, compared the situation there to the Vietnam War and implied that "the control of oil" was a major reason for the U.S. military presence in Iraq.
"I personally do not believe we will be ready for an election in January," Mr. Carter told Katie Couric Sept. 30 on NBC's "Today" show.
The United States, he said, should "go through the election and then withdraw American troops as rapidly as possible. ... Get us out of there."
As recently as three weeks ago, Mr. Carter predicted low turnout and an unrepresentative result for the Iraq election.
"Whether it's 30 percent turnout or 50 percent turnout, almost entirely Shi'ites and Kurds and just a very few Sunnis, I think, the White House will claim it's a success," Mr. Carter told Matt Lauer on the "Today" show on Jan. 19.
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Even the Sunnis of Tikrit are turning out!
The Sunni Arabs know, too, that Thursday's vote is for a full, four-year government, one whose reach will be far greater than that of the current transitional one.

"The Sunnis have suffered enough from this government," said Dhiab al-Ibrahim, a campaign manager for Mishaan al-Jubouri, a tough-talking Sunni Arab candidate who is popular in Tikrit. "They governed us for one year, and look what they've done to us. What will happen if they rule us for four years?"

This town of 110,000, situated along the west bank of the Tigris River, has become the epicenter of an intense get-out-the-vote campaign by Sunni Arabs, rivaling the flurry of political activity in the Shiite south and Kurdish north.
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The Sunni participation puts the last of the building blocks in place for the establishment of a truly representative democratic republic. They are conforming as they must to the real and overarching power of democracy; self-interest.

With even such leftist critics as Carter recognising the success of this election perhaps we've finally turned the corner on Deanesque liberal defeatism?? I sure hope so!

-z
 
You've got to admire and respect someone who is willing to admit when they were wrong ......

Charlie (it's called humility, spread it around) Monoxide
 
Morrison's Lament said:
Giggetty-Giggetty!
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Getting that was a weird multi-stage process for me. It sounded familiar, took a few moments to place the character, a few more to recall the name, then the connection to the thread dawned on me a little slower than it should have (I was originally trying to figure out his relationship to Carter, and didn't get far).
 
Major Billy said:
Only in the pages of the Washington Times.
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"Poison Well"?? Shouldn't you be disputing the validity of the claim rather than the media reporting it? Actually it's rather telling that the more liberal papers are ignoring it.

But did you look at the report about Tikrit and the Sunni vote? See; in the interest of being both "fair and balanced" I purposely found an NYT article.

Poison well is a logical fallacy...you shouldn't argue from fallacy on a skeptic's forum.

-z
 
Jocko said:
Not as early as when Carter (and dozens of other Dems) projected failure.
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Failure is the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. It's easier than making a meaningful effort, or offering better ideas for victory. The fact remains that the democratic party has hitched it's political fortunes to failure and death for our soldiers in Iraq. They've backed the wrong horse...the terrorists...they should be deeply ashamed.

-z
 
I'm not certain if I have posted this before (I intended to post it immediately after the capture of Bagdad but I don't remember if I did) but I'm waiting for five years until I finally decide whether I count the Iraq war a success or not.

So, ask me in April 2008 what my opinion is.
 
rikzilla said:
Failure is the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. It's easier than making a meaningful effort. The fact remains that the democratic party has hitched it's political fortunes to failure and death for our soldiers in Iraq. They've backed the wrong horse...the terrorists...they should be deeply ashamed.

-z
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Yeah. I am sure they are cheering every American death over there and secretly hoping that Osama will nuke D.C.:rolleyes:
 
rikzilla said:
But did you look at the report (NYT article) about Tikrit and the Sunni vote?
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Yes. It contained no evidence whatsoever to support the "Washington Times" slander of President Carter.

Now, if you could site some supporting evidence from Fox News, perhaps you'd have more of a case.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
Yeah. I am sure they are cheering every American death over there and secretly hoping that Osama will nuke D.C.:rolleyes:
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Straw man.

Why not refute the idea I expressed? That the democratic party leadership has bet it's political future on failure in Iraq instead of offering better ideas for victory as a "loyal opposition" should in time of war.

Explain to me how the dems have eschewed using troop deaths against GWB. Explain how the dems have supported the war effort in word and deed. Explain how the democratic party itself suffers along with America if Iraq becomes quagmire and defeat.

-z
 
Major Billy said:
Yes. It contained no evidence whatsoever to support the "Washington Times" slander of President Carter.

Now, if you could site some supporting evidence from Fox News, perhaps you'd have more of a case.
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Still with the poison well eh? I guess you have nothing much to offer then...
I suppose I could dig up those past Carter quotes for you; but I believe everyone should do their own research.

-z
 
rikzilla said:
Straw man.

Why not refute the idea I expressed? That the democratic party leadership has bet it's political future on failure in Iraq instead of offering better ideas for victory as a "loyal opposition" should in time of war.

Explain to me how the dems have eschewed using troop deaths against GWB. Explain how the dems have supported the war effort in word and deed. Explain how the democratic party itself suffers along with America if Iraq becomes quagmire and defeat.

-z
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First explain to me how the Dems are 'Backing the terrorists'. That's a very, very, very serious allegation.
 
Melendwyr said:
Is it defeatism for a doctor to correctly diagnose a disease?
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Ha! Idiots like Dean have been running around for months and months saying "Pull the plug! Pull the plug! The patient's dying!" So actually, yeah, he's looking pretty dumb right now with the patient complaining about the food and asking where's the gym.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
First explain to me how the Dems are 'Backing the terrorists'. That's a very, very, very serious allegation.
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Quote me.

If you know that I said "backing the terrorists" then why won't you quote me?

Deliberate misquotation is a lie and has caused moderators to intervene in past cases. I'll not report you; but you do need to either quote me directly or retract your mis-quotation.

-z
 
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