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PZ Myers Gets Expelled....Again

Whack01 said:
Don't let me fool you with reasonableness though, I have my own share of 'woo'. I'm just not arguing it here because I've been so out of it for the last few years that I'm aware that I am currently intellectually unready to even present my woo let alone argue it coherently.
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Excuse the off thread comments...
Very few do "argue it coherently" I find. :) All I am saying is that it is refreshing to find the combination of an apparent fundamentalist and skeptic with a sense of right and wrong that is not based simply on some talking points of the DI.

You will be challenged forthrightly on this forum by some folks much more witty and well versed than myself, if you make claims about religion, so don't be deterred by that alone.
 
articulett said:
A comment at PZ's blog:

Sign that it was made by the creationists/Expelled crew:

Lyrics.
Looks like it cost money to make.

Sign that it was not by the Expelled crew:

Whoever made the video knows what Richard Dawkins looks like.

That made me laugh. Of course, I think the lyrics are pretty damn impressive once you understand them... clearly a smart person. Richard is confused about whose side they are on:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2409,n,n

I've never met a bright creationist, so I say "ours"--
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I say "theirs". It's littered with symbols and actions trying to denigrate the four horsemen. But it's funny as hell.

The truly funny thing is that we love it. Making fun of Dawkins is something that we all embrace, in part, because we like the guy so much and no one is above gentle ribbing.

This looks like a pretty dang big backfire from what I can see. Thanks "Expelled" folks. Now I have more reason to live those guys.
 
I say "ours". The lyrics are all pro-science. The only anti-science themes are the way over-the-top imagery, which is mocking creationist stereotypes of scientists, and the arrogant attitude, which again mocks the creationist stereotypes as well as conforming to the norm of the rap genre.

The crudeness is belying a very subtle message. This was skillfully done.


...and I really want a Dancing Darwin screen saver.
 
Upchurch said:
I say "ours". The lyrics are all pro-science. The only anti-science themes are the way over-the-top imagery, which is mocking creationist stereotypes of scientists, and the arrogant attitude, which again mocks the creationist stereotypes as well as conforming to the norm of the rap genre.

The crudeness is belying a very subtle message. This was skillfully done.


...and I really want a Dancing Darwin screen saver.
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These lyrics are all pro-science?

My name is D to the I to C to the K, Yeah I'm the Dickie D,
I gots my phd and comin' your way on the youtube to bust your world view
so just listen to me and don't you argue.

You see, this battle's been ragin' since Zeus was on the bottle,
between Science like Democritus and Faith like Aristotle,
who said the mover wasn't movin' like some magic trick but
that's no good logic, my posse is far too quick for this
religious sthick.

Cos science is the only way to know y'all,
you stand with me y'all,
or you can fall y'all so go ahead and take your pick.

ES: Yeah you tell him Rick ...
Darwin : Cos if you don't know me ...

RD: YOU DON'T KNOW DICK!!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!

SH:On the shoulders of midgets we built up this machine,
DD:YEAH!!!
RD:Silence that watch... Paley
Growing stronger and harder almost daily, storming wilber by force as we framed the discourse until the science split in schismatic divorce then Darwin took to the seas to see what no one had seen, and ever since then we've been increasingly keen, they may never adore us, but they'll no longer ignore us, give it to 'em PZ hit these BLEEP with the chorus!!!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!


Then there was Darrow dukin' it out with the straight and the narrow a ragin' bull in the ring, he did his thing, and took it on the chin like he was bobby de niro.
We might have lost at Scopes, beaten down by the dopes, and the stooges of popes, but in losin' we coped, becomin' more than we hoped, creationists slipped on the soap of their own slippery slope, what was impossible, improbable, is now wholly unstoppable .... the creationst foldup you hate us talking bull, don't you know that this Dick BLEEP frickin' unblockable ...

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!

Now the machine of our making, sees culture ripe for the taking Cos I'm the rapper thats rappin the .... unlike the Catholic, Muslim or even the Jew, believes that no God but science could ever be true, hell if I was dyslexic I'd even hate "dog" too.

Time to open your eyes, get yourself wise, the age of science has arised to be religions demise, and while you turkeys all cry, shouting why God oh why, I'll still be poppin' my collar earning my dollars in Allah.

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!
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Not to mention the whole surrounding story -- the machine that expels those who do not bend to the will of the scientific establishment; plus the dollar sign bling (materialists, got it), all under the control of mad scientist Dawkins. Most of the lyrics sound like creationist sterotypes of the scientific community to me -- the chorus is one big appeal to authority.

I don't know, I think it was produced by the other side, but I could be wrong. Skillful, yes. Don't underestimate your enemy. I suppose it could be from either side, just subtely ironic. I just tend to think it was from their camp and a complete backfire.

I get who most of the people are but who is the woman? Was that a woman? I can see Sam Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, PZ Myers, and Dennett. Am I missing someone?

It's still funny as hell, though.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
These lyrics are all pro-science?
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I would say this is a really excellent piece of satire; and with satire everything is fair game, so don't expect to find a lob-sided piece of propaganda. On the first viewing my reaction was rather negative, and I had to watch it a couple of times to appreciate its cleverness.

I get who most of the people are but who is the woman?
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That would be Eugenie Scott. What I really want to know is WHO MADE IT? It sounds like Greydon Square, and the script is twisted enough to be something out of George Hrab (I mean come on, Eugenie Scott belly dancing?? And Darwin puking over the side...!) - but the animation would have required some smarts.

It's a pity Richard Dawkins' reaction was so snotty; but then I suppose being depicted buggering an androgynous school teacher in South Park must make you a bit gun-shy.
 
dahduh said:
I would say this is a really excellent piece of satire; and with satire everything is fair game, so don't expect to find a lob-sided piece of propaganda. On the first viewing my reaction was rather negative, and I had to watch it a couple of times to appreciate its cleverness.
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With that I fully agree. I guess the funny thing is that as satire it could have come from either camp, but it doesn't really matter. It's still hilarious no matter who did it. We could see it as from our side and then it is just a deliciously witty send-up of the stereotypes that creationists create. Or we could see it as from their side, and then it is just their stereotypes missing by a mile because it just made us all laugh. Out loud. Repeatedly. Or from someone on the sidelines. Doesn't matter, still clever.


That would be Eugenie Scott. What I really want to know is WHO MADE IT? It sounds like Greydon Square, and the script is twisted enough to be something out of George Hrab (I mean come on, Eugenie Scott belly dancing?? And Darwin puking over the side...!) - but the animation would have required some smarts.

It's a pity Richard Dawkins' reaction was so snotty; but then I suppose being depicted buggering an androgynous school teacher in South Park must make you a bit gun-shy.
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Ah, thanks. Yeah, the animation was great. I can't access You-tube from work -- can't wait to get home and see it again. My wife wasn't interested but my kids loved it. We spent part of the weekend watching Randi videos and the four horseman interview, so they were primed for it.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
These lyrics are all pro-science?
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...yes. I didn't say they were tactful. I said they were pro-science.


Ichneumonwasp said:
Not to mention the whole surrounding story -- the machine that expels those who do not bend to the will of the scientific establishment; plus the dollar sign bling (materialists, got it), all under the control of mad scientist Dawkins. Most of the lyrics sound like creationist sterotypes of the scientific community to me -- the chorus is one big appeal to authority.
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That would be creationist stereotypes I had referred to earlier, yes. The ones the video is spoofing.
 
Upchurch said:
...yes. I didn't say they were tactful. I said they were pro-science.



That would be creationist stereotypes I had referred to earlier, yes. The ones the video is spoofing.
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Right, but it could just as easily have been a lame attempt on their part to spoof Dawkins and company and to suggest that they are expelling folks from academe when they don't toe the party line.

Personally, I think that is funnier because it misses the mark so widely.
 
Whack01 said:
The condescension in that conference call is truly disgusting. I think myers stated a good argument, but wasn't given enough time to present counter examples to support his argument .....
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Time to present? Surely you jest. :dl:
 
How did you get invited to the conference call, Rebecca? I am curious since they must know SkepChick is interested in real science.
 
I've been doing a little reading around the pro-ID blogs about the "Beware the Believers" youtube video and came across a most extraordinary interpretation (http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/science-bloggers-hook-line-and-sinker/#more-3180). To summarize my understanding of what the blogger 'Dave' says, it runs like this:

"The video contains two messages, one obvious and the other subtle. The obvious message is about how arrogant science is, and that's for the creationists. The hidden message is for all the science bloggers, who are the only ones who know enough to spot it.

"The message is designed to get the ID message across, but to hook the science people into thinking the video is actually pro-science and get them to promote the video and take it viral."

In support of this thesis, the blogger notes that all the people on the ID blog have only latched onto the anti-science message, but that all the people on the science blogs pulled it apart and found the pro-science message. QED.

In other words, according to at least one pro-ID blogger, "Our people are so thick we can craft our propaganda to take advantage of it."

Wow. And all this time I thought these guys were thick. But now I see their subtlety is breathtaking.
 
The overt message of the rap video is feeding the image of an arrogant scientific viewpoint in the minds of creationists. There's even a nice subtle racism at work in casting the arrogant scientists as "wanna-be" rappers. This is not a pro-science piece at all. You might think that because the singers are using some of the normal pro-science statements, but it is the context they are being placed in that tells the true story. An "honest" scientist gets EXPELLED by the machine. Also, this lyric:

believes that no God but science could ever be true
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That's full-out creationism idiocy put into the mouth of Richard Dawkins.

Points for packaging, but overall, this is meant to harm science.
 
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Re the Dawkins rap video, I think the reason we don't know what side it's on comes from a couple things.

One, if you aren't into rap music, you may not know the typical message genre. That makes it hard to know if it is being sarcastic about "he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree".

And two, we are smarter than them so it's hard to see that as sarcastic. ;)
 
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More Lying in the Promotion of "Expelled"

It appears that the promoters of the film are starting to play fast and loose with whether or not various screenings are canceled. Apparently, some people signed up for a screening on April 3rd in Tempe, AZ were notified that it was "canceled", when in reality the show went on. It seems this is a process to weed out "undesirables" from seeing the screening.

Despite the attempts to screen people from the screening, there were a few skeptical folks who managed to get into the Tempe, AZ event. Here's more on a recent Pandas Thumb entry:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/04/telling-lies-fo.html

In light of this new information, if anyone on the forums was interested in going to see a screening, I would encourage you to contact the theater in question and ask them whether or not the screening is on. If the answer is "yes", then I'd encourage you to go anyway, but do so "under the radar".

Yet more lies. These people are despicable. :mad:
 
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I admit that I didn't know much about PZ Meyers before Expelled.

Apparently, he's gangsta.
 
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The phone call "gatecrashing" inspired me. I befriended expelled's myspace page so I could leave comments. I tried leaving one asking about why PZ was kicked out of the movie showing, but they're too smart, and set up their page so you have to get the comment approved before it shows up.

So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.

Check it out while it lasts: http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.
 
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