*-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

[Gary Gordon]

Putin refuses to talk with 'child killers'

Last Updated Tue, 07 Sep 2004

BESLAN, RUSSIA - Russian President Vladimir Putin fired back at suggestions from Western leaders that he should negotiate with Chechen separatists in the wake of the Beslan school siege that left 335 dead.

In an interview with Britain's Guardian newspaper, Putin asked how it is possible to negotiate with heavily armed militants, like those involved in the school hostage taking.

He accused western leaders of applying a double standard when it comes to terrorism.

"Why don't you meet Osama Bin Laden, invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks, ask him what he wants and give it to him so he leaves you in peace?"

"No one has a moral right to tell us to talk to child killers," Putin said.

"You find it possible to set some limitations in your dealings with these bastards, so why should we talk to people who are child-killers?"

About a third of the hostage-takers were reported to be Arabs....


http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/09/07/newrussia_mourning040907.html?print
....

Putin is 100% correct to tell these European "leaders" to stuff a sock in it. Notice that the US lends 100% support for Russia in this attack, while some in Europe want to try blame the victims and perhaps justify the cause of these unhuman attackers.

 

[Darat]

The terrorist attacks from the likes of the IRA used to kill children in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain.

The nearest to peace we've achieved (so far) in regards to the situation in Northern Ireland has been through a combination of "tough action" and years of careful work to open up talks with these child killers.

At times the only option can be to engage with these disgusting inhumane killers no matter how repugnant we find the thought to be.

 

[The Don]

Putin is 100% correct to tell these European "leaders" to stuff a sock in it. Notice that the US lends 100% support for Russia in this attack, while some in Europe want to try blame the victims and perhaps justify the cause of these unhuman attackers.

I take it that you have evidence for your claim that there is no-one in the U.S. that feels that Russian action in Chechnya has been a causative factor in any way.

 

[Gary Gordon]

Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

I take it that you have evidence for your claim that there is no-one in the U.S. that feels that Russian action in Chechnya has been a causative factor in any way.

Find me an article where American government officials are second-guessing Putin.

Russia will see in the aftermath of this tragedy that it's America - not Europe - who is giving them 100-percent, unquestioned support in this terrible time.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

Find me an article where American government officials are second-guessing Putin.

Russia will see in the aftermath of this tragedy that it's America - not Europe - who is giving them 100-percent, unquestioned support in this terrible time.

From your original post, it would appear Putin is targetting his comments at both the EU and the US:

"invite him to Brussels or to the White House and engage in talks"

I'm sure if you asked a moderator they would edit the title of your thread to make it more accurate (as if you would be interested in that!)

 

[Donks]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/07/putin.us/index.html

But Putin said each time Russia complained to the Bush administration about meetings held between U.S. officials and Chechen separatist representatives, the U.S. response has been "we'll get back to you" or "we reserve the right to talk with anyone we want."

Putin's comments came a few weeks after the U.S. granted asylum to Ilias Akhmadov, the "foreign minister" of the Chechen separatist movement.

 

[Gary Gordon]

Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

Find me an article where American government officials are second-guessing Putin.

Still waiting...

 

[The Don]

Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

Find me an article where American government officials are second-guessing Putin.

Russia will see in the aftermath of this tragedy that it's America - not Europe - who is giving them 100-percent, unquestioned support in this terrible time.

And how exactly is the U.S. doing this ?

 

[The Don]

Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

Find me an article where American government officials are second-guessing Putin.

I can't seem to find one where European government officals are, merely second hand information from Putin.

I take it your chosen approach under such situations would also be not to negotiate with terrorists, storm the building and damn the consequences.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

*snip*

Russia will see in the aftermath of this tragedy that it's America - not Europe - who is giving them 100-percent, unquestioned support in this terrible time.

I sure hope so. While nothing can defend the terrorrists, it appears that the Russian authoritie's handling of this case was deplorable. We cannot know if a less amateurish mode of action could have saved lives or not, but The Russians would be wise to try and learn from this, as it is probably not the last time they have a situation like this on their hands.

Hans

 

[plindboe]

Sadly Putin lacks the skill of negotiation completely, so this war; both the atrocities committed in Chechnya and the atrocities committed by the terrorists, will continue many years to come. It's easier for Putin to order more troops and attacks in Chechnya, but will take alot of effort for him to negotiate. For Putin everything in Chechnya is easy, he simply labels them all terrorists, even the moderate chechen leaders, and he won't have to deal with the difficulties of the conflict at all.

 

[Gary Gordon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: *-=[Putin Blasts Europe...]=-*

I sure hope so. While nothing can defend the terrorrists, it appears that the Russian authoritie's handling of this case was deplorable. We cannot know if a less amateurish mode of action could have saved lives or not, but The Russians would be wise to try and learn from this, as it is probably not the last time they have a situation like this on their hands.

Hans

In terms of military tactics, yeah, it was a disgrace. But the Russians were left with no choice when the terrorists started gunning down the children by the dozens and when the children tried to escape.

 

[Ralph]

The terrorist attacks from the likes of the IRA used to kill children in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain.

The nearest to peace we've achieved (so far) in regards to the situation in Northern Ireland has been through a combination of "tough action" and years of careful work to open up talks with these child killers.

At times the only option can be to engage with these disgusting inhumane killers no matter how repugnant we find the thought to be.

Do you think Putin should begin negotiating with the Chechen
"separatists"?

 

[Darat]

Do you think Putin should begin negotiating with the Chechen
"separatists"?

I think it depends on who you mean by "separatists".

If you mean do I think he should do everything possible to find a way to resolve the long, long conflict between "Russia" and Chechen even if that means having to "negotiate" with child killers then I have to say "yes", no matter how repugnant and abhorrent I find that thought.

 

[Ralph]

I think it depends on who you mean by "separatists".

If you mean do I think he should do everything possible to find a way to resolve the long, long conflict between "Russia" and Chechen even if that means having to "negotiate" with child killers then I have to say "yes", no matter how repugnant and abhorrent I find that thought.

What kind of message would agreeing to negotiate send though?

That you can get what you want if you're willing to murder our children?

If Putin were to negotiate with the people who were responsible for this I'm afraid we'd open the floodgates for more of the same.

We'll see various terrorist factions trying to "outdo" each other
for "maximum effect".

What next--videotapes of 6 year olds having their heads cut off?


Israel has had to deal with deliberate child murdering for years but has refused to negotiate. Granted-it hasn't brought peace----but we haven't seen wide scale attacks on Israeli schools & day care centers either.


There are no easy answers.......but I think negotiating is probably the worst of the various options Putin has....

 

[Gary Gordon]

I think it depends on who you mean by "separatists".

If you mean do I think he should do everything possible to find a way to resolve the long, long conflict between "Russia" and Chechen even if that means having to "negotiate" with child killers then I have to say "yes", no matter how repugnant and abhorrent I find that thought.

Your weakness is noted.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Your weakness is noted.

The trick is to get what you want, and if you have to use peaceful means, do it.

Of course, if you're really good at negotiation you settle things with the more moderate of the opposition, and make one of your conditions the heads of the more extreme of the opposition. Factionalism being what it is, they might be delighted to comply.

And if you can't manage that, you can always have a rash of "accidents" later.

 

[Gary Gordon]

The trick is to get what you want, and if you have to use peaceful means, do it.

Of course, if you're really good at negotiation you settle things with the more moderate of the opposition, and make one of your conditions the heads of the more extreme of the opposition. Factionalism being what it is, they might be delighted to comply.

And if you can't manage that, you can always have a rash of "accidents" later.

Lol at "settling things" with Islamic militants. You just don't get it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Lol at "settling things" with Islamic militants. You just don't get it.

I was assuming the militants to be the extremist part of an overall pro-independence movement in Chechnya. I'm sure there are plenty of pro-indies there who are not in favor of the blazing-guns approach. They would be the moderates.

 

[Gary Gordon]

I was assuming the militants to be the extremist part of an overall pro-independence movement in Chechnya. I'm sure there are plenty of pro-indies there who are not in favor of the blazing-guns approach. They would be the moderates.

There was a settlement with the logical people, you ignoramus. That didn't stop these Islamic militants from gunning down kids, or the others from blowing up the planes.

There is no talking to Islamic militants. No bargaining. Wake up and smell the coffee.