Put in jail for speech. Yes, in the USA.

[bignickel]

I asked one mod to split this thread; any other mods out there willing to do it?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

I asked one mod to split this thread; any other mods out there willing to do it?

Is not the reasoning behind the jailing relevant to the tread topic?

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Anyone who claims that teachers are overpaid is an effing moron.

Were you stomping your feet when you wrote the above.

 

[Dan O.]

Is not the reasoning behind the jailing relevant to the tread topic?

The sub-thread on teacher pay should be split off. Then we could get back to discussing the violation of the teachers rights without interrupting it.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

The sub-thread on teacher pay should be split off. Then we could get back to discussing the violation of the teachers rights without interrupting it.

I see your point.


I know that teachers have a right to disseminate published material and attacking with the force of the State a teacher who does so is a violation of the constitution and a crime against all those in a free society.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I don't think any evidence is going to convince you, so I'm not going to waste my time.

Wow, combining an ad hominem with a dodge, touche.

 

[Dan O.]

I'm surprised that Rankin v. McPherson hasn't been brought up as relating to this case.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

I see your point.


I know that teachers have a right to disseminate published material and attacking with the force of the State a teacher who does so is a violation of the constitution and a crime against all those in a free society.

Anyone does. In this case, the basisappears to be...
inciting violence. ... but in this case, it's a outright crime.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Anyone does. In this case, the basisappears to be...
inciting violence. ... but in this case, it's a outright crime.

Who was incited to violence?

 

[Dan O.]

An editorial in the Boulder Camera published a few days before the Columbine massacre stated that: "Guns are the answer" and advocated using machine guns to take down miners. I haven't heard of anyone getting arrested for printing that.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

An editorial in the Boulder Camera published a few days before the Columbine massacre stated that: "Guns are the answer" and advocated using machine guns to take down miners. I haven't heard of anyone getting arrested for printing that.

That is because it was not aimed at the jobs program for those that have a hard time living outside of governmental assistance.

 

[WildCat]

To further this:
Median Household Income: $43,791 (2006)

The average salary for a Wisconsin teacher was $41056 in 2002,

You do realize that median household income is a poor comparison to median personal income, don't you? Most households have more than 1 wage earner, could be a spouse or maybe the kid has a job at McDonald's, maybe it's a household of roomates who all have jobs.

A teacher making nearly as much as the median household income is hardly underpaid. Imagine a household of 2 median-income teachers - their household income is over $82,000.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

You do realize that median household income is a poor comparison to median personal income, don't you? Most households have more than 1 wage earner, could be a spouse or maybe the kid has a job at McDonald's, maybe it's a household of roomates who all have jobs.

A teacher making nearly as much as the median household income is hardly underpaid. Imagine a household of 2 median-income teachers - their household income is over $82,000.

I have pointed this out several times. It is constantly ignored.

 

[CaptainManacles]

Wow, combining an ad hominem with a dodge, touche.

Demonstrating that you have no idea how to identify an ad hominem only reinforces my point.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Maybe. But I think that jerome's relentless attempt to portray the teachers as make-work.. is nothing short of an outright lie. Big Lie. :|

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Maybe. But I think that jerome's relentless attempt to portray the teachers as make-work.. is nothing short of an outright lie. Big Lie. :|

You are calling the public school teachers in my family Big Liars.

They fully understand the game, they are admitted participates. They choose to do the best they can because it is easier than leaving for another career and they feel they can educate sometimes some students.

 

[epeos76]

I see your point.


I know that teachers have a right to disseminate published material and attacking with the force of the State a teacher who does so is a violation of the constitution and a crime against all those in a free society.

Jerome, three questions just to better understand your position: What limits do you recognize on the right of teachers to disseminate published material? Do you recognize any limits on free speech? Do you think the text of the 1st amendment is sufficient to answer all questions about how speech can be regulated?

I'm surprised that Rankin v. McPherson hasn't been brought up as relating to this case.

I just read this case over at www.findlaw.com. It's readable and right on point. In summary, after watching news coverage of an attempt to assassinate Reagan, a police employee made a remark in a private conversation that she hoped the next attempt to assassinate the president succeeded. The remark was overheard and she was fired. The Supreme Court held that under the circumstances, she could not be fired for making this statement.

Rankin makes a couple of important points:

Speech on a matter of public concern gets even broader protection than ordinary speech because its important to a functioning democracy.

Nonetheless, as an employer, the government has a legitimate interest in "effective functioning" that in some cases outweighs the speaker's interest in making a particular statement.


The Court identified several potentially important factors in deciding whether the state's interest was strong enough to trump state employees' rights.

We have previously recognized as pertinent considerations whether the statement impairs discipline by superiors or harmony among co-workers, has a detrimental impact on close working relationships for which personal loyalty and confidence are necessary, or impedes the performance of the speaker's duties or interferes with the regular operation of the enterprise

Rankin found it important that there was not

any danger that McPherson had discredited the office by making her statement in public

Our teacher posted (anonomously) to a public message board. Once he was identified his remarks reflected on the school board. I imagine they also affected his personal relationships and his ability to deal efficiently with the staff.

I still think the problem comes from the fact that his internet provider handed over his name without a second thought. Not state action though.

The police didn't take any actions to protect his identity. I don't know really know how strong the right to speak anonomously is, or even should be.

Anyone does. In this case, the basisappears to be...
inciting violence. ... but in this case, it's a outright crime.

Tokorona, laws against speech likely to incite violence are invalid to the extent that they don't comport with the constitution. The consensus earlier appeared to be that the teacher's remarks didn't meet the constitutional standard.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

I agree it doesn't meet the standard. I was taking a guess at the basis of him being arrested.

 

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Jerome, three questions just to better understand your position: What limits do you recognize on the right of teachers to disseminate published material? Do you recognize any limits on free speech? Do you think the text of the 1st amendment is sufficient to answer all questions about how speech can be regulated?

None.

None, until that speech harms another in a manner in which a violation of their rights happens. It is difficult to get to the point of speech causing harm.

The amendment is not the extent of mans right of speech, rights are inherent.

 

[Dan O.]

In all the shouting, nobody seams to have noticed: Washington County District Attorney Todd Martens declined to file charges against teacher and blogger James Buss.