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Psychics and Missing People

I certainly hope that if I ever go missing, I don't have to rely on a psychic's guess to rescue me. As far as I know, not a single person has ever been found because of a so-called psychic. When will people learn?
I applaud your standing up for what's right during this difficult time, and I truelly do hope you find your missing person alive and well. It is criminal, in my opinion, the way these scammers feed off your pain and profit from (and add to!) your emotional distraught. That is not something anybody needs.
Best wishes to you.
 
Kelly, I am very sorry that you find yourself in such an awful situation and I hope good news comes for you and your family. I think the work you are proposing to pursue with these fraudulant leeches is very important & I wish you every good luck with it.

It would be great if you could attend a TAM - I am sure that is just what the scholarships are for & people would love to hear you.

Very best wishes
 
tsg said:
A private detective might be able to find a missing child.
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I'm just saying it isn't out of line for someone who performs a "service" to charge money for it. All that is out of line is promising a service that is useless, and that is plenty enough to warrant scorn.

And a psychic who is sought out by a family to search for a missing loved one is marginally better than a psychic who hears of a missing person and then seeks out the family and offers her services. The paranormal equivalent of an "ambulance chaser." Scummiest of the scum.

And I am happy to hear the PI on KellyJ's son's case is working pro bono. Good man! Or woman, whatever the case may be.
 
KellyJ said:
LukeT: I have never approached a psychic, ever. They have all come to me or come to people who know me. I agree that I would be a good resource for sharing these stories. I have never put them on "pen and paper" but will be working on this in the next few weeks for the blog series. It was always too painful at the time, but I know it is important to help expose these people.
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Yes, it is very important, and you are in a better position to do it than we are. Psychics deflect criticisms by skeptics by claiming they (the psychics) are caring and loving human beings helping others. You are perfectly situated to show that their "help" is not only unwanted, but also that they are nothing more than exploiters of pain and suffering who impose themselves on victims unsolicited when their sales resistance is at its lowest and their desperation highest.
 
Luke T. said:
I'm just saying it isn't out of line for someone who performs a "service" to charge money for it. All that is out of line is promising a service that is useless, and that is plenty enough to warrant scorn.
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That's entirely the point. They aren't providing a service, certainly not one worth paying for. I thought it was pretty evident that's what LLH meant.
 
tsg said:
That's entirely the point. They aren't providing a service, certainly not one worth paying for. I thought it was pretty evident that's what LLH meant.
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Reading back over LLH's comment with a different perspective, I see you are right.

I concluded a long time ago that psychics have no shame and that it went without saying. So from that perspective I thought LLH was saying that what was wrong was to charge victims money for anything.

I was wrong for thinking the shamelessness of psychics goes without saying. It needs to be said. Over and over and over.
 
Kelly,
I know you mentioned the Carla Baron report, but I'm not sure if you have talked to the folks who wrote it.

(For those of you who haven't read the Independent Investigations Group's devastating report on Carla Baron, you can read it here: http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html )

I'm a new member of the IIG, but I wasn't around when they did the Baron report. However, you should get in touch with them. To contact the IIG:
(323) 666-9797, ext. 159 or info@iigwest.com

I do hope you find you son one day. I can't imagine the pain you're experiencing.

And, like others said, mark your calendar for the next TAM (well, as soon as the dates are announced, anyway.) You need to be there, and the members of this board will make sure that someone like you will have anything you can't afford fully covered.
 
Hi, Kelly J, and warmest welcome. You've started the best and most productive thread in recent memory. Let's keep it going.

To everyone: I was so pleased to discover Mark Klaas' statement on psychic detectives some time ago. And thank you, Lost Angeles, for the list of links including the one to the skeptic dictionary which I repeat here: http://skepdic.com/psychdet.html.

Am I dreaming it (well, it would be a nightmare, actually) that John Walsh of America's Most Wanted actually did a show on the psychic detectives? Someone tell me I'm wrong.
 
Mariah said:
Am I dreaming it (well, it would be a nightmare, actually) that John Walsh of America's Most Wanted actually did a show on the psychic detectives? Someone tell me I'm wrong.
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Sorry...

Thursday January 1, 2003
RERUN
PSYCHIC PHENOMENA: AN INSIDE LOOK
Today, we spend a fascinating hour with Dougall Fraser – a 26-year-old clairvoyant who has been a professional psychic for years. Dougall has become recognized as one of the country’s top psychics, assisting people with the loss of loved ones, relationships, prosperity, self-help, and spiritual development. During the hour, Dougall helps our guests find answers, hope, and in some cases, closure in their lives. First, Dougall tells us a little about himself and how he realized at a young age that he had a special “ability.” He then lets our viewers in on some of his celebrity predictions – who’ll stay together, who’ll break up, and who’s going to run for office. He may even have a prediction or two for you! Next, Dougall focuses on the two most popular reasons people come to see him – love and money. Dougall “reads” and advises two guests regarding their love life – Catherine & Kenya. Catherine is here because she is in a serious relationship right now and wonders if her man is “the one,” and Kenya is here because she is searching for the man of her dreams! We also have two guests that Dougall reads and advises regarding money issues – Carly & Rich. Carly is here because she’s been unemployed for several months and wants to know what she’s doing wrong. She says she is curious about the future of her career. Rich is a young actor who has reached a crossroads and is contemplating moving across the country to pursue his passion. He says he wants a hint at whether or not moving will help his career. Our hope is that Dougall delivers each of our guests some news and helpful hints that encourages them to look forward to their future. As you know, psychic shops are on just about every corner here in New York, and the majority of them are fakes. Dougall lets us in on some of these “so-called” psychics’ most commonly used ploys and tactics…and also provides tips on how to stay away from the frauds and find someone who’s legit. We actually went “undercover” before the show and had readings done at two local psychics. We find out just how accurate Dougall is and see just what happened when we sent our “spy cam” into these establishments. Later in the show, Dougall “reads” the audience and also takes specific questions from audience members looking for guidance. Dougall is truly more than the average “psychic” in that he combines his clairvoyant skills with life coaching – so he doesn’t just entertain and make predictions, he helps guide people in taking the right steps to get the results they’re looking for in life. Plus, Jennifer Stockburger, an Automotive Test Engineer for Consumer Reports, shares important tips and information on car seat safety in this week’s Keeping Families Safe segment.
Episode #102403.
A 26-year-old psychic attempts to help people find answers.
Director(s): Andy Barsh . Producer(s): Alexandra Jewett , George Davilas , Jamie Kotkin-Hammer , Michael Newport .
Original Airdate: October 24, 2003.
Clairvoyance: A True Sixth Sense
Clairvoyant Dougall Fraser answers audience questions.
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John Walsh TV Listings: December 29 - January 2 2003


That same day, the John Walsh Show taped a program on "Psychic Phenomena: An Inside Look," to air on October 24. Both Noreen Renier and Gary Posner were contacted for possible appearances (just imagine the drama of that confrontation!), as was CSICOP's Joe Nickell (in the event Gary couldn’t make it). However, to avoid the airfares to New York City, the show decided instead, as its website announced that week, to "spend a fascinating hour with Dougall Fraser --— a 26-year-old clairvoyant . . . one of the country’s top psychics. . . . Dougall helps our guests find answers, hope, and in some cases, closure in their lives."

John Walsh, of all people, ought to know better. After all, if "psychic" power was genuine, his other TV program, America’s Most Wanted, would be unnecessary -- the nation's legion of "psychic detectives" could take care of locating the fugitives, including the murderer (still unidentified) of his own son. As Posner told Walsh's producer, rather than "budgetary" concerns, he suspects that they cynically opted to titillate rather than "“educate your viewers about the true nature of 'psychic' [phenomena]."
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http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/v16n3rpt.html
 
John Walsh and Psychics: Thanks, Luke T. That's what I was afraid of. That's too, too bad.
 
That's too bad about John Walsh. He's a big enough name without needing to jump onto the psychic bandwagon.

Misc notes: THanks again for the warm welcome, kindness, and compassion extended.

Our pro bono "disappeared" on us. He did try hard for a long time, for which we are most grateful, but like LE, he couldn't figure it out, so things lie dormant for the most part.

PI's in some cases are close to the same level as the psychics. Many of them charge a very hefty charge and give no results. The majority of the families we assist could not even begin to afford one. They're stuck with nothing. IN adult cases, often times little investigation is done by LE. That could be a part of why they get desperate and turn to psychics.

Does anyone know how many people in general believe that psychics are the real thing?

I ran into the IIG folks online some time back, Brian specifically. He asked me to write about my experiences, but at that time, I wasn't ready.

Yes, I would be interested in the TAM, thank you. I see that it just took place. Is it always at that time of year in Vegas?

Kelly
 
Benjamin Radford presented on psychic detectives at TAM4, including statistics on psychic success. I remember that only one psychic actually found a victim, by searching near where the police were searching. Of course, even the slightest correlation (near trees!) will be claimed as a success.
 
Kelly, please accept my sincerest condolences on the mysterious disappearance of your son.

I will hope on your behalf...

I applaud you for warning people about the futility of investing their hopes and money in psychic detectives ... people who cannot help.

Every fiber of my being knows why desperate people turn to psychic help, which is no help at all. I understand it. I don't agree with it, but I do know how the desperation of not knowing can motivate a person to reach out to whatever crumb of help might be offered.

Keep informing people, educating them. It's a worthy endeavor.


Gayle
 
I'm glad to see you post here, Kelly, because so much of what we do here on the JREF Forum is just talk, even though it is worthwhile talk when we are educating and encouraging each other. Your involvement opens up ways to actually DO something about all this. I'm always frustrated that we don't DO more.
 
Thank you all.

In relation to my initial inquiry, does anyone have any ideas for these 2 action items:

"Another thing which would be helpful and would probably require someone with a pyschiatry background, is to find a way to help these families who feel pressured to use psychics, to not feel guilty about refusing these offers.

And finally, I would love to find someone who is fairly well known in the debunking area, especially when it comes to missing person's cases, to do an interview for the blog I write."

Takers? Someone always knows someone else.....

As to the physciatrist person, I would like some quotes on how persons in these situations, when faced with the helplessness that comes when the case gets cold, can avoid the guilt/desperation that prompts them to seek out psychics.

Kelly
 
Incredible!

I just get a pm. I was hoping it was the woman with the missing relative, but no, it was another one of THEM. Apparantly, they did not read this thread!

"hi kellyj i was reading your posts so i checked out your sight and i wanted to let you know your a great person and would like to ask you if maybe i can try and help out i figure things out sometimes it just comes to me maybe you could send me things with pictures and any information with the cases or pictures of items also like personal belongings

while i was reading about a missing child i knew right away what prob happend and as i read i was right"

I said:
"I don't think you read my post. Read it again. If you think you have "powers" then report what you know to law enforecement."

Let me make this clear: Do NOT write to me or PM me with your claims and offers. If you think you know what happened to a missing person, contact the LE involved in their case. They can make the decision as to the validity of your claim and use resources to check it if that is their desire.

I do not and will not refer "psychics" to the families we assist, nor act as a go-between to provide information.

And furthermore, why don't we see your application submitted for the Million Dollar Challenge?

To the rest of the readers: This is just another example of my undesired magnetism for these types. I was hoping I would be exempt here. I am trying to find a little humor in that.

Kelly
 
Kelly,

If you feel this amounts to harrassment, report the member to the moderators.
 
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