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Psychics and Missing People

Well then, I suppose you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on what money well spent is.

My contention is and always will be that the woman made some lucky guesses but those don't require any special powers at all. Most law enforcement officers I know would have come to the same conclusions based on statistics and what they know about missing adult women. That doesn't make them psychic and they don't charge for it. Not $25 or $700 and hour like some. I got off very light in the money department, no doubt. Had she given us something concrete like, oh I don't know, a location where the body may be or even where part of the body was or where evidence could be located or even a name, I'd say she was pretty good. She didn't. It's not difficult to say some man she knew killed her, providing a name is much more difficult. She didn't and yes, I did ask. And yes, left that out originally, I did ask for a name, she gave me no name, not even an initial. In fact, several in law enforcement have told me the same thing and they aren't psychic. They also have no intimate knowledge of the case seeing as it happened in a state where I don't live. So, yes, law enforcement could have told me the same things based on years of experience with such things. And did you miss the part where another psychic told her family to look under a bridge? Her body wasn't there. So, we had one saying it'll never be found and one saying look under a bridge. Maybe mine was right, I just don't happen to believe it.

I mean no disrespect here, but if you're contending that psychics are the real deal and this lady was talented, I'll politely disagree. If you're saying I got off light as opposed to most people with far worse stories than my own, I'll certainly agree. Mine is nothing compared to Kelly's or the stories of some others. I won't change my mind on my view of psychics. They've never found anybody, they've never solved a case and they never will. They have taken money from the desperate, though. I was desperate, many people were desperate. That's why we turned to psychics in the first place.
 
Well then, I suppose you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion on what money well spent is.

My contention is and always will be that the woman made some lucky guesses but those don't require any special powers at all. Most law enforcement officers I know would have come to the same conclusions based on statistics and what they know about missing adult women. That doesn't make them psychic and they don't charge for it. Not $25 or $700 and hour like some. I got off very light in the money department, no doubt. Had she given us something concrete like, oh I don't know, a location where the body may be or even where part of the body was or where evidence could be located or even a name, I'd say she was pretty good. She didn't. It's not difficult to say some man she knew killed her, providing a name is much more difficult. She didn't and yes, I did ask. And yes, left that out originally, I did ask for a name, she gave me no name, not even an initial. In fact, several in law enforcement have told me the same thing and they aren't psychic. They also have no intimate knowledge of the case seeing as it happened in a state where I don't live. So, yes, law enforcement could have told me the same things based on years of experience with such things.
Do you really think they would have told you that her body would never be found, the perpetrator would be caught trying to hurt somebody else, and he would never confess to killing her?

And did you miss the part where another psychic told her family to look under a bridge? Her body wasn't there. So, we had one saying it'll never be found and one saying look under a bridge. Maybe mine was right, I just don't happen to believe it.
No one that I know of is arguing that all psychics are accurate. The relevant question is: Are any psychics accurate?

I mean no disrespect here, but if you're contending that psychics are the real deal and this lady was talented, I'll politely disagree. If you're saying I got off light as opposed to most people with far worse stories than my own, I'll certainly agree. Mine is nothing compared to Kelly's or the stories of some others. I won't change my mind on my view of psychics. They've never found anybody, they've never solved a case and they never will. They have taken money from the desperate, though. I was desperate, many people were desperate. That's why we turned to psychics in the first place.
A number of people would differ with you regarding the accuracy of certain psychics. For example, retired New Jersey detective and polygraph expert Jerry Lewis states:

"In 1995 I obtained a copy of Psychic Detective written by Nancy Orlen Weber. I was amazed to read about her involvement in many cases I had worked. I was even more impressed by her accuracy. She gave police specific, relevant, and concrete information early on in investigations that proved to be absolutely correct! I wondered why I had not heard of her impressions while I was involved in testing suspects in the case. But I realized that often her conclusions did not mesh with police theories. She did all she could but she could not make people believe her. However, in each case, her information proved to be entirely correct. Since I had worked on these cases I knew all of the police officers mentioned in her book. So I began calling them to see if this was all true. Not only did all of the officers vouch for the information in the book, they told me that Nancy actually did more in some cases than she had related." See http://www.nancyorlenweber.com/References.html
 
Rodney, you're ignoring the point. Any law enforcement official could have told Eire everything the psychic told her. The money was NOT well spent. It was scammed from Eire. The point is that had Eire taken the time to talk to a cop, not only would have Eire saved money, but the extremely remote possibility exists that the bf might not have had the opportunity to kill again. Yes, law enforcement WOULD have told her all of those things, particularly since those very same things are known by much of the general public, partly due to the proliferation of true crime books and some pretty good detective novels. Perhaps if you might read a few books, such as Mindhunter, or even a good detective novel once in a while, you might have figured this out.
 
Rodney, you're ignoring the point. Any law enforcement official could have told Eire everything the psychic told her. The money was NOT well spent. It was scammed from Eire. The point is that had Eire taken the time to talk to a cop, not only would have Eire saved money, but the extremely remote possibility exists that the bf might not have had the opportunity to kill again. Yes, law enforcement WOULD have told her all of those things, particularly since those very same things are known by much of the general public, partly due to the proliferation of true crime books and some pretty good detective novels. Perhaps if you might read a few books, such as Mindhunter, or even a good detective novel once in a while, you might have figured this out.
I noted five things that Eire's account says the psychic told her that, in my opinion, a law enforcement official would not have told her. If I'm wrong, please give me some statistics; e.g., the percentage of young women who disappear, are presumed dead, but whose bodies are never found.
 
Rodney, I don't think this is the correct thread to be defending psychics. If you wish to pursue this conversation I would politely suggest that a new thread might be a better idea.
 
Sure, she MAY have gotten lucky and perhaps one day at least one aspect of what she told you MAY be proven wrong, but so far it looks to me as if your $25 was well-spent.

Yes, in the same way that spending $25 for a psychic to tell you the next flip of a coin will be "heads" is well spent because it did come up heads. Of course, if it came up tails we wouldn't be hearing from you, would we.

Yet more cherry-picking of data.....
 
Hello and thanks, friends for alerting me to the activity here. It's been quite busy the last few weeks, so I hadn't had a chance to stop in. I'm in the process of getting ready to roll out a new family member benefit, so I'm immersed in that.

Thanks, Eire, for sharing your story and for your kind comments. Welcome to the forum too! I tried my best on WS to convince some other posters that they are not right about psychics. Perhaps, though, some lurker did gain a new understanding.

Thanks, Roadtoad for getting the train back on the tracks!

Rodney, all, I am quite sure there are no sure stats about this situation, however, I have run into it numerous times. In fact, where I live, we just completed a murder trial that sounds just like the psychic's story. Murders without a body are a pretty popular storyline right now. I will post this on the new thread.

End Derail
 
I hope no one minds that I post occasional organization updates on here. I know there are several members who are interested in what we do outside of the psychic-related issues. I'm pretty pleased with this one, as I am quite sure no one else is offering such a benefit.

Here's the latest:

Healing Harbor: A Free Counseling Service offered by Project Jason

Project Jason is pleased to announce the opening of Healing Harbor.

Healing Harbor is a free service provided to families of the missing by nonprofit organization Project Jason and Duane Bowers, LPC.

Families of the missing suffer a unique tragedy, one with which many professional counselors do not have the training or experience to be able to properly service their clients. In addition, many families do not have the financial means to seek professional counseling. Duane is one of the nation’s most qualified counselors in regards to issues faced by these families, and we are honored to have him with us to answer your questions.

Healing Harbor can provide answers and assistance on a variety of emotional issues that effect family members of missing persons. This assistance may provide the boost needed for that family member to deal with and adapt to the situation without seeking counseling. (Please keep in mind that Healing Harbor should not be viewed as a substitute for individual, private counseling if needed.)

Families of the missing who elect to participate in Healing Harbor are invited to post their question to Duane in our private forum area. These questions may cover any topic of interest in respect to emotional issues that relate to having a missing person in their life.

If you are a family member of a missing person, and would like to take advantage of this service, please register at our forum, located at http://www.projectjason.org/dpforum/forum.php

After registration, simply follow the instructions in the verification email you will receive, and then let us know that you have registered, so we can grant permissions for you to enter the special forum area. Email us with your username, the name of the missing loved one, and your relationship to them. After verification, we’ll open up access to Healing Harbor to you.

The Healing Harbor forum is: http://projectjason.org/dpforum/forum_display.php?id=25
Posting Guidelines, FAQ's, and other pertinent information: http://projectjason.org/dpforum/forum_display.php?id=26
The Waiting List and Questions area: http://projectjason.org/dpforum/forum_display.php?id=27

We hope that you will find healing in our safe harbor.

With Hope for all of our Missing Loved Ones,

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
http://www.projectjason.org
Read our Voice for the Missing Blog
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/
 
Nothing to say really, just hate seeing this thread on anything but the first page of this forum.

If I'm breaking some rule here let me know and I'll stop.
 
I received an email from a "psychic" today. Apparently, her psychic powers were on the blink since she did not have any clue as to our policies and opinions about psychics.

She had the VERY mistaken notion that I was going to refer families of the missing to her. And again, her powers failed her.
 
Is there any way to drive such people out of business? This is without breaking the law or calling in the police.
I was thinking of you referring these psychics to someone. This person does NOT have anyone missing but pretends to. They then say 'yes we will employ you if you can show us you are any good.' Then demand proof of a track record. May uncover some of the psychics past victims. Or at least embarrass the psychic.

Anyway, Kelly, I enjoy reading your posts in this thread. Keep it up. Any way I can subscribe to your blog?
 
Is there any way to drive such people out of business? This is without breaking the law or calling in the police.
I was thinking of you referring these psychics to someone. This person does NOT have anyone missing but pretends to. They then say 'yes we will employ you if you can show us you are any good.' Then demand proof of a track record. May uncover some of the psychics past victims. Or at least embarrass the psychic.

Anyway, Kelly, I enjoy reading your posts in this thread. Keep it up. Any way I can subscribe to your blog?

This particular psychic said she is getting her own show/segment on Court TV and was looking for a family in the DC area to have on this show, so there probably isn't a simple way to spoof that, and I'm not going to get involved in trying to trick a television production company.

On the blog, I think there is a way to be notified when I post something new, but I have no idea how to do that. It's a Blogger blog, so maybe someone else knows how to do this.

Thanks!
 
Shame on Court TV for their continuing desire to achieve ratings at the expense of integrity. Can't these people find a job on another cable station that doesn't hurt survivors of a crime or confuse simple-minded people on what is professional methods of researching a criminal investigation? It bothers me they use the name "Court TV." It gives them legitimacy their woo programming doesn't deserve.
 
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Shame on Court TV for their continuing desire to achieve ratings at the expense of integrity. Can't these people find a job on another cable station that doesn't hurt survivors of a crime or confuse simple-minded people on what is professional methods of researching a criminal investigation? It bothers me they use the name "Court TV." It gives them legitimacy their woo programming doesn't deserve.

Court TV used to be one of my favorite cable channels. Now I rarely visit it anymore, ever since it got cosy with the likes of Carla Bloody Baron. Of course, I'm sure Court TV would probably consider me as acceptable collateral damage, if indeed they considered me at all.
 
I don't know how much coverage the abduction/possible murder of Madeleine McCann has received in the USA, but in the three months since this 4-year-old English girl disappeared from her parents' holiday apartment in Portugal the psychic predators have been having a field day. One of the most repellent of the breed is Sarah Delamere Hurding (www.sarahdelamerehurding.com), who is currently entertaining readers of the UK-Skeptics and Badpsychics forums with her rambling nonsense, evasions and shameless lies:

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1094

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1153

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=896

http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=500

When her predictions come to nothing - and except in her fantasy world they all do - she simply edits or deletes the posts in which they were mentioned.

I'm inclined to think that Hurding is deluded rather than knowingly fraudulent. The words "narcissistic personality disorder" spring to my mind when I read her egotistical rubbish - indeed, in her latest post she hints that she is misunderstood genius doomed to be ridiculed by her contemporaries:

Originally Posted by psychicsarah
“When a true genius appears, you ...t the million dollars has never been safer...
 
Just thinking of this thread, so I thought I would bump it.
Kelly has not posted here for some time, but I am sure she is OK as her homepage is still active.
 

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