mmm... methinks you should stop playing poker. You know what cards are coming so presumably you what everyone's hole cards are as well - you therefore know who will have the best hand - you shouldn't be losing in this situation
mmm... methinks you should stop playing poker. You know what cards are coming so presumably you what everyone's hole cards are as well - you therefore know who will have the best hand - you shouldn't be losing in this situation
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
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I am inviting suggestions from you regarding questions or responses for me to give to Jane in next week’s class. I don’t want to humiliate her, but I am seeking subtle comments that might alert others to her pretensions.
My advice is to siimply ignore her. Self-proclaimed psychics thrive on attention and not giving it to her will induce her to make wilder and sillier claims. The others will notice her nuttiness while you take the high road.
Gbob
Scholar
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Not at all CardZues. Let's take a hold 'em situation since most folks here have seen the game, if nothing else.
You have one of two abilities. You can either see the other persons hole cards (the two cards in hold 'em that people keep face down) or you can know for a fact what cards will be coming up on the flop, the turn or the river.
You hold 9 of spades and 9 of hearts.
The other player holds 8 of spades and 8 of clubs.
Now, before the flop you're only a 4:1 favorite (about. The math is an exercise left to the reader). Now, any poker player would be happy to go into a pot with those kind of odds.
So let's say you're playing a 5/10 dollar game. You're last to act. The other player bets 40 dollars. The pot is now at 55 dollars. With your x-ray vision you see the blinds have rags and will fold. You raise, betting the pot. Pot is now 110 dollars. The guy with the 8's thinks for a while, and pushes in his last 200 dollars. The pot is now 310 dollars, and you only have to put in another 200. Remember, you're getting 4:1 odds. How could you not call?
The thing is, every 5 times you do this you're going to lose once. In a cash game, this is great, but in a tournament (blech) you could be eliminated despite knowing exactly what the other person held.
When I was teaching my son to play (he was 5 at the time) I had him play with his cards up. First time I played against him, I lost. A terrible reminder of the vicious nature of the game.
So what about being able to predict the cards coming up?
Let's say you still have those 9's. You can't see the other players cards, but you know the flop will come up 9 of diamonds, 9 of clubs and 7 of clubs. You can predict that you will have 4 of a kind. Obviously you would jump at any chance to call any bet someone makes after the flop.
The flop comes, and sure enough it's the exact same cards you predicted. The other player bets 100 dollars. Of course you call. The next card is a 6 of clubs. The other player goes all in. You know for a fact the next card is going to be a 5 of clubs. Do you still call despite the fact that if the other player has an 8 of clubs he'll win?
Of course you will. You have 4 of a kind.
So unless you have both x-ray vision and the powers of predicting the future, you are not a sure winner like you would be playing lottery numbers.
You have one of two abilities. You can either see the other persons hole cards (the two cards in hold 'em that people keep face down) or you can know for a fact what cards will be coming up on the flop, the turn or the river.
You hold 9 of spades and 9 of hearts.
The other player holds 8 of spades and 8 of clubs.
Now, before the flop you're only a 4:1 favorite (about. The math is an exercise left to the reader). Now, any poker player would be happy to go into a pot with those kind of odds.
So let's say you're playing a 5/10 dollar game. You're last to act. The other player bets 40 dollars. The pot is now at 55 dollars. With your x-ray vision you see the blinds have rags and will fold. You raise, betting the pot. Pot is now 110 dollars. The guy with the 8's thinks for a while, and pushes in his last 200 dollars. The pot is now 310 dollars, and you only have to put in another 200. Remember, you're getting 4:1 odds. How could you not call?
The thing is, every 5 times you do this you're going to lose once. In a cash game, this is great, but in a tournament (blech) you could be eliminated despite knowing exactly what the other person held.
When I was teaching my son to play (he was 5 at the time) I had him play with his cards up. First time I played against him, I lost. A terrible reminder of the vicious nature of the game.
So what about being able to predict the cards coming up?
Let's say you still have those 9's. You can't see the other players cards, but you know the flop will come up 9 of diamonds, 9 of clubs and 7 of clubs. You can predict that you will have 4 of a kind. Obviously you would jump at any chance to call any bet someone makes after the flop.
The flop comes, and sure enough it's the exact same cards you predicted. The other player bets 100 dollars. Of course you call. The next card is a 6 of clubs. The other player goes all in. You know for a fact the next card is going to be a 5 of clubs. Do you still call despite the fact that if the other player has an 8 of clubs he'll win?
Of course you will. You have 4 of a kind.
So unless you have both x-ray vision and the powers of predicting the future, you are not a sure winner like you would be playing lottery numbers.
jimtron
Illuminator
Notrump: hello, fellow Chicagoan.
Anyway, as far as what to say with her: in my experience I've gotten farther with people when I use a light touch and keep a sense of humor about everything. I think it's easy to come off, in the eyes of the woos, as harsh or humorless or overly critical (even if that isn't the case). Maybe if you can have a relationship with the psychic where you can gently tease her--as long as you are self deprecating and let her do the same. Otherwise things can get antagonistic pretty quickly and then it will be very hard to get anywhere (IMHO).
I would want to ask her, "what can you do that non-psychics cannot do?"
I've tried to pin believers in psychic abilities down, and find out exactly what they thing psychics do, and sometimes what they describe sounds very similar to talk therapy. But you might ask her to demonstrate something that only a psychic could do--not to prove her wrong, but to understand what she does.
Do you know anything about mentalism? It might be cool to show her and the class a mentalism effect or two. I'll bet it would be much more impressive than anything she could do for the class.
I wonder which God she isn't. Can God determine what your sign is? I thought Astrology and psychic dabbling was an evil punishable by death according to the Bible.
Anyway, as far as what to say with her: in my experience I've gotten farther with people when I use a light touch and keep a sense of humor about everything. I think it's easy to come off, in the eyes of the woos, as harsh or humorless or overly critical (even if that isn't the case). Maybe if you can have a relationship with the psychic where you can gently tease her--as long as you are self deprecating and let her do the same. Otherwise things can get antagonistic pretty quickly and then it will be very hard to get anywhere (IMHO).
I would want to ask her, "what can you do that non-psychics cannot do?"
I've tried to pin believers in psychic abilities down, and find out exactly what they thing psychics do, and sometimes what they describe sounds very similar to talk therapy. But you might ask her to demonstrate something that only a psychic could do--not to prove her wrong, but to understand what she does.
Do you know anything about mentalism? It might be cool to show her and the class a mentalism effect or two. I'll bet it would be much more impressive than anything she could do for the class.
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Of course if you can only know the hole cards OR the community cards then you can lose, but why would you only be able to 'know' certain cards and not all of them?? BTW do you play poker? I cchallenge you to a heads up game on Absolute, Bodog or Pokerstars
Only if she gets decent cards. If all I've got is King high and my opponent has a full house, it'd be quite hard for me to get them to fold so I could pick up the pot.
Harlequin
Kids love clowns
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- 383
I think this is the key what Gbob is saying. if you think of a psychic as having "super-powers", then you might have to distinguish between these two abilities. Since most psychics just say vague things about being able to "see the future", perhaps they can see that future moment when all key cards are exposed? Or maybe they see the flop only, but from the perspective of an opponent and therefore can see their hidden cards as well?
Anyway, I have to say it's obviously a stupid argument. Psychics don't seem to enter poker tournaments - or if they do then they certainly don't seem to be winning in any dramatic fashion.
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
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- 34,552
Have you mentioned the JREF prize at all? that's better than poker
Gbob
Scholar
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CardZues, I'm more of a live player. Vegas a few times a year, Atlantic City when I can and then my home casino of the Seneca in Niagara Falls (not to mention various home games and bars). It's not a JREF subject, but I could go on for a very long rant why online poker is not true poker, since you're only playing half the game.
I had an account on Party until they shut out American players.
Next TAM, or if you're ever in Buffalo NY, I'll be happy to take you up on the offer. We can both protect the table against people with woo powers.
You know, this does bring up an interesting point about skepticism and poker. To do well at poker in the long run you need to be a complete rationalist in regards to the odds of success. You also need a really good BS detector. Poker players are not only great liars, but also great lie detectors as reading body language is a major part of play. Why then do poker players have woo beliefs?
My feeling is that because human beings find patterns in almost everything around us, when we're faced with a game that presents us with hundreds of random outcomes each hour it becomes impossible not to see a pattern in the chaos that we attribute to "luck" or "fate" or some other woo concept. Poker players, driven mad by the schism of having to be both realists and reliers on random outcomes, find themselves adopting odd ritualistic fetish behavior such as wearing the same outfit when they're on a winning streak, "lucky" pieces of jewelry, etc. A common lesson poker players give is "play the rush" where after having a couple winning hands you play more pots since you're on a hot streak. Now, one reason why that works is that other players are reluctant to play against someone perceived as "hot" so they fold more often, reinforcing the perception of the person on the streak as winning more.
Poker is unlike chess. In chess making the perfect moves will always result in a victory. In poker, any hand is decided by the random appearance of cards. Over the course of a week, a month or a year, good play and proper choices will result in profit, and that's what you're really playing for. One bad side effect of this fact is that any player can be driven nuts.
I had an account on Party until they shut out American players.
Next TAM, or if you're ever in Buffalo NY, I'll be happy to take you up on the offer. We can both protect the table against people with woo powers.
You know, this does bring up an interesting point about skepticism and poker. To do well at poker in the long run you need to be a complete rationalist in regards to the odds of success. You also need a really good BS detector. Poker players are not only great liars, but also great lie detectors as reading body language is a major part of play. Why then do poker players have woo beliefs?
My feeling is that because human beings find patterns in almost everything around us, when we're faced with a game that presents us with hundreds of random outcomes each hour it becomes impossible not to see a pattern in the chaos that we attribute to "luck" or "fate" or some other woo concept. Poker players, driven mad by the schism of having to be both realists and reliers on random outcomes, find themselves adopting odd ritualistic fetish behavior such as wearing the same outfit when they're on a winning streak, "lucky" pieces of jewelry, etc. A common lesson poker players give is "play the rush" where after having a couple winning hands you play more pots since you're on a hot streak. Now, one reason why that works is that other players are reluctant to play against someone perceived as "hot" so they fold more often, reinforcing the perception of the person on the streak as winning more.
Poker is unlike chess. In chess making the perfect moves will always result in a victory. In poker, any hand is decided by the random appearance of cards. Over the course of a week, a month or a year, good play and proper choices will result in profit, and that's what you're really playing for. One bad side effect of this fact is that any player can be driven nuts.