Protests in Wisconsin - Scott Walker

deepatrax said:
This disgusting display AGAIN by the Left should be bookmarked and brought up every time some Liberal tries to claim, "No, we never do that!"
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And apparently many of those protesting in the video were TEACHERS! In which case, doubly disgusting. :D
 
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BeAChooser said:
And apparently many of protesting in the video were TEACHERS! In which case, doubly disgusting. :D
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What does it matter if they were teachers? Teachers should have a voice in government as much as anyone else.
 
BeAChooser said:
Howard Dean is the former head of the DNC. He called the Tea Party “the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity" ... i.e., racists. He said "you have all had friends of different races, different religions, and different sexual orientations, and you all date each other, that is not how I grew up. That is not how the tea party grew up. The tea party is almost entirely over 55 and white" ... i.e., racist. His group, Democracy for America, sent out an email calling the "Tea Baggers" "extremists" with a “weirdly racist tinge”.

Current DNC Chair, Tim Kaine, called the "the tea bag party" "corrosive and divisive" while at the same the New York Times reported that the White House was planning an all out ad campaign to create the impression that the Republican party was now being led by Tea Party "extremists". Kaine stated that he sees as the Tea Party's "extreme agenda" is reflected in the beliefs of most of the GOP House leadership. It doesn't take a genius to see that he was trying to hang the racism charges that democrats far and wide, and in the mainstream media, had leveled against the Tea Party on the GOP's door.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi referred to the Tea Party movement's protests as "un-American". Pelosi even said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCq7mv7HVM



You be the judge whether she was referring to nazis. :D
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So neither the DNC nor Obama called the Tea Party Nazis and racists. Gotcha.
 
Kaosium said:
I make up my own 'spin' SG. I don't even pay attention to national politics anymore, too much hateful trash and not enough actual debate about things that matter. Maybe my opinion is actually my opinion, being as I live here and all I might know something about it. :)



It won't go over well, it could be forgotten, but maybe not. Trying to frustrate the will of the governor we elected (and I didn't vote for BTW) to prop up an institution that has gotten really good at pissing Wisconsinites off might not be best.
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It doesn't have to do with paying attention to national politics. The spin machine injects particular frames (ideas) into the public discourse and the media echo chamber inadvertently takes it from there.


While I believe you know a lot, and your state elected the guy responsible, the protests in Madison do not consist of a couple hundred people in a 2 hour march.


There's an awful lot about Karl Rove's and Frank Luntz' very scientific approach to manipulating how people view things that many Progressives know little about. The choice of Obama to use the slogan "win the future" in his State of the Union speech is an example of just how bad the Democratic Party is at marketing their message.
 
johnny karate said:
No.
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Yeah, that was the Cap Times link, just looked it up. The Capitol Times was the afternoon paper here once, then years back they folded into a weekly insert that goes in the WSJ on Wednesdays, as both are owned by the same entity, Madison Newspapers.

It's not exactly what you'd call an balanced source. Back when I did care about politics I got Michael Barone's Almanac of American Politics circa 1996 and in the entry for my district it was noted that the Capitol Times (still a real newspaper then) was known as one of the most left-wing daily newspapers in the US. That might sound good to you, but I generally find that the ones that are the 'most' of anything tend to be a little less...objective...than other sources as they tend to think of their opponents as evil, horrific creatures who must be crushed like the worthless vermin they are. :eek:

So I kinda take what the Cap Times has to say with a grain of salt, especially when it doesn't make much sense. Blaming a future budget shortfall on the guy who just took over strikes me as kinda silly.
 
johnny karate said:
I've documented my claim. Twice.

Perhaps you both should try reading through the thread before chiming in.
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http://www.salon.com/news/budget_sh...ww/2011/02/18/wisconsins_budget_woes_are_real

FEB 18, 2011

Don't be fooled: Wisconsin's budget woes are real

… snip …

After becoming governor, Walker immediately passed a couple of tax cuts that turned what would have been a budget surplus into a $137 million budget deficit for the current fiscal year.
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Gee, I thought you said he did it by increasing spending? You consider a tax cut an increase in spending? That's liberal thinking folks. Because they think your money is their money. :D

Continuing ...

The Badger State is not in good shape. Like many other states, it is facing a huge fiscal hole over the next two years. Wisconsin calculates its budgets on a biennial basis, and the latest estimate for the next two-year budget is for a $3.6 billion deficit. Sure, that number is considerably bigger than a $2.2 billion deficit projected by the outgoing Democratic administration, and Walker has obvious political reasons for inflating it, but independent analysts do not find the figures out of line.
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So maybe, despite what you claim, there is some urgency.

Oh and by the way …

http://search.jsonline.com/Search.aspx?k=$2.2+billion+deficit&s.x=38&s.y=8

Posted November 19, 2010

Gov. Jim Doyle’s administration told Scott Walker on Friday that he would have to cope with a $2.2 billion deficit in the state’s upcoming two-year budget, but this forecast contained more than $1 billion in hidden pain.
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And this ...

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/80951567.html

Jan. 8, 2010 | Madison – A new report says the state could face a $2.2 billion budget shortfall next year even if the economy makes a dramatic recovery.

The report by the conservative Wisconsin Policy Research Institute assumes state spending increases are limited and revenues grow by 3.2% a year for the two-year budget that begins July 1, 2011. Even then, the deficit would stand at $2.2 billion, writes Richard Chandler, a former state revenue secretary.

“The problem cannot be solved by revenue growth, even if the economy realizes robust growth,” the report says. “It cannot be solved by freezing state spending. Finally, the problem is far too severe to be solved by increasing taxes on the wealthy or by cutting the bureaucracy. In other words, nothing that resembles business-as-usual will close Wisconsin’s looming budget hole.”
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So it turns out that all was not rosy when Walker assumed the helm. That the problem can't be solved by "business-as-usual".

And it turns out that you were trying to mislead the forum with your so-called "document", jk.

:D
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
There's an awful lot about Karl Rove's and Frank Luntz' very scientific approach to manipulating how people view things that many Progressives know little about.
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In case anyone missed the obvious, Karl Rove is SG's boogie man. The Puppeteer behind it all. :D
 
BeAChooser said:
Gee, I thought you said he did it by increasing spending? You consider a tax cut an increase in spending? That's liberal thinking folks. Because they think your money is their money. :D
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Tax cuts for whom?

BeAChooser said:
So maybe, despite what you claim, there is some urgency.
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Those shortfalls are projected for the next budget. The current budget doesn't expire until the end of June.

So no, there is no urgency.

BeAChooser said:
Oh and by the way …

http://search.jsonline.com/Search.aspx?k=%242.2+billion+deficit&s.x=38&s.y=8



And this ...

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/80951567.html



So it turns out that all was not rosy when Walker assumed the helm. That the problem can't be solved by "business-as-usual".

And it turns out that you were trying to mislead the forum with your so-called "document", jk.

:D
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The January 31, 2011 memo from the Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau trumps your outdated sources.
 
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johnny karate said:
Wrong source. Again.

Keep looking.

I only linked to it three times already.
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You linked to a source that talks about fund balances.
I linked to two sites that are talking about budget shortfalls both from statements from the outgoing governor.

So I am faced with these options (I am sure there are others)
1) The outgoing governor did not know what he was talking about. Unlikely
2) Maybe fund balances are a different animal than budget shortfalls and surpluses. Likely
3) or numbers can be massaged many different ways. I am an accountant but I don't know governmental fund accounting now(although I had to have some knowledge of it years ago when I took the CPA exam) certainly true

But it is clear to me the outgoing governor would not have said there was a large shortfall when in fact there was a surplus.

I believe the states have to balance their budgets although they probably are allowed to do so through financing. Which could cause a shortfall between tax revenues and expenditures and yet an increase in fund balances.

From reading your link it looks as if Wisconsin is required to have a positive fund balance.


I found that all the states except Vermont have a legal requirement of a balanced budget.
http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=12660
 
Your source and BAC's sources are in reference to the next budget. The deficits therein are tied to Medicaid (as explained in one of BAC's sources) and have nothing to so with the current so-called "budget crisis".
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It doesn't have to do with paying attention to national politics. The spin machine injects particular frames (ideas) into the public discourse and the media echo chamber inadvertently takes it from there.
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Oh, yes, I've seen it.

Skeptic Ginger said:
While I believe you know a lot, and your state elected the guy responsible, the protests in Madison do not consist of a couple hundred people in a 2 hour march.
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Thousands! Tens of Thousands! Maybe 25k all told! WSJ Headline:

STATE OF CHAOS

Page 6:
"Protests good for business."
"Downtown eateries in particular are booming with customers this week."

Opinion Page:
"It's time to get back to class."

I must say I like the ingenuity of the UW TA with the sign: "Teacher's assistants are sexier with benefits." :p

When I was in high school I bussed across town and sometime circa 1985 protesters stormed the First Wisconsin building on the square to protest money in South Africa. For about a year later a 'shantytown' demonstration existed on the Capitol lawn. The guy who just took first place in the mayorial primary was one of the ones organizing protests at the UW during the Vietnam War, he's been mayor twice for multiple terms in the Seventies and Nineties. He'll likely be elected again. Unrelated to his demonstrations the Army Math-Science Research Center was bombed in Sterling Hall, killing a janitor. (?)

We know about protests. :)

What does this mean to the people who live here? My brother or his wife has had to stay home with their kids most of the week as there's no classes. This makes them real happy because their income got cut in half this week, and they didn't vote for Scott Walker but know who really needs to show up for work and not call in 'sick.' Lotsa people like that, it might not be a good thing to plaster the national Democrat name all over it, if you don't like what Walker's doing, why give him a boogieman to blame?

Skeptic Ginger said:
There's an awful lot about Karl Rove's and Frank Luntz' very scientific approach to manipulating how people view things that many Progressives know little about. The choice of Obama to use the slogan "win the future" in his State of the Union speech is an example of just how bad the Democratic Party is at marketing their message.
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It's not just marketing, sometimes it's the message. 'You stay home with no pay so I don't have to accept a trifle less benefits' just isn't a winner with some people. My brother had to take a 20% pay cut to get a 'promotion' over the last year or so, and lost his 'collective bargaining rights' as he was now 'management' and not getting paid union scale anymore. He's not exactly an anti-union kinda guy, but it kinda irks him to sacrifice even more in income this week so that he can pay more taxes so others don't have to make much of any sacrifice. :)

Just a view from the trenches, I think I'll stay out of this section from now on, though nothing to do with you. I just saw the headline and couldn't resist. I'll let people know the WI-ANG is about to open fire and actually the whole budget crisis is the fault of the brand new governor and we all just never noticed it.

What's the matter with a little chaos anyway! :p
 
Kao, I've been to a gazillion protests in my life time. The one in Wisconsin and the length of time it is continuing, reflects a large sentiment.

And there are always parents who resent the inconvenience of closed schools and parents who support the teachers. It's rare that the former outnumber the latter.

I'm trying to assess the financial facts carefully before judging, but I can see at a glance the attack on the unions that support Democratic candidates while conveniently leaving out the unions that supported Republicans. And I fail to see how the union rules addressed in the bill are required for the wage or benefit cuts. There is a process for wages and benefits adjustments, it's called the bargaining table.
 
BeAChooser said:
In case anyone missed the obvious, Karl Rove is SG's boogie man. The Puppeteer behind it all. :D
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I take that to mean you are unaware of two of the best political marketers in a century and the advances in the science of persuasion that Luntz can take credit for.

Suit yourself.
 
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