Prostitution: the public health perspective.

[Ivor the Engineer]

The problem is that no one has the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their body.

It's a shame pimps don't agree with you.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

A relevant article I found:

Legalising prostitution would save the NHS £330 million every year, and halve the spread of sexual diseases according to one medical expert.
Chris Spencer Jones, chair of the BMA public health committee, told the BMA's annual conference on public health and medicine that around 70% of all STIs (sexually transmitted infections) occurred among prostitutes and their clients.
"If prostitution was legalised and regulated, you wouldn't get an exactly 70% drop in STIs, but I would be confident in saying that you would get a 50% drop," he said
[snip]

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-4037.htmlhttp://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-4037.html

 

[Eddie Dane]

Really? Here, STD figures are apparently going up quite fast, and they haven't legalised prostitution! But though NZ hasn't had a "surge", what about a simple rise? Even if they legalised it here, I suspect the STD rate might not go up much faster than it is now, because legalising it wouldn't necessarily mean more people visited prostitutes; and it may be that many of those who do would be generally more promiscuous and thus in a higher-risk category anyway.

I would expect STDś to decline in case of legalization.

Does anyone have actual numbers?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I would expect STDś to decline in case of legalization.

Does anyone have actual numbers?

Not always the actual numbers, but I gave a link to some info wrt NZ a few posts back.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Not always the actual numbers, but I gave a link to some info wrt NZ a few posts back.

Oops, I overlooked that.
Thanks.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Not always the actual numbers, but I gave a link to some info wrt NZ a few posts back.

I only read the summary, which I thought said STD's went up.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I only read the summary, which I thought said STD's went up.

Yep, it did say that.

 

[Baby Nemesis]

I would expect STDś to decline in case of legalization.

Does anyone have actual numbers?

Well, according to the article about STD rates in New Zealand Professor Yaffle posted, STD rates have gone up quite a bit there in the years since prostitution was legalised, though it's probably impossible to tell how much, if anything, that has to do with it. From the article:

• Between 2003 and 2007, diagnoses of chlamydia increased by 19% and gonorrhoea by 56%

The problem is that no one has the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their body.

But hang on, it happens all the time. For instance, if you clench your fist and want to hit someone with your body, there'll be plenty of people certain they have the right to tell you not to. If a woman's husband wanted to go to see a prostitute, she might be fairly certain she had the right to tell him not to.

Perhaps you could be more specific about what you mean?

Legalising prostitution would save the NHS £330 million every year, and halve the spread of sexual diseases according to one medical expert.
Chris Spencer Jones, chair of the BMA public health committee, told the BMA's annual conference on public health and medicine that around 70% of all STIs (sexually transmitted infections) occurred among prostitutes and their clients.
"If prostitution was legalised and regulated, you wouldn't get an exactly 70% drop in STIs, but I would be confident in saying that you would get a 50% drop," he said

Did he actually explain how it was and would be possible to tell how much of the STD rate was specifically generated by client-prostitute contact, especially given that many clients and prostitutes might be promiscuous outside their business relationships?

Also, did he take into account the possibility that not all prostitutes would want to submit to regular medical examinations? For instance, any who got incurable diseases such as herpes and AIDS might still want to carry on working. If they were faced with being barred from working legally because of their disease, I suspect it's possible that they would work illegally, undercutting the prices of the legal ones, and thus still attracting clients foolhardy enough to take the risks.

And how would such a system work anyway? You register yourself as a prostitute and get regular check-ups, or you risk a fine? Imprisonment for repeat offences? Or what? It could end up being quite a burden on the legal system, and the NHS. How much would regular check-ups cost? Did he take that into account?

And there must be a lot of prostitutes out there who like working informally and wouldn't want to be regulated, especially if it meant paying tax, or being chased by the system if they worked irregularly and claimed benefits during the time they weren't working and didn't notify the authorities every time they started and stopped working, because of the hassle of wading through the red tape of burocracy whenever they did, and it was discovered they'd been working and claiming benefits at the same time. What would the authorities say? "Either get out there and get more clients, or we'll take you to court for benefit fraud"?

 

[CORed]

If only there were some kind of cheap, simple, readily available device that greatly reduces the risk of sexually transmitted disease.

 

[casebro]

Ya, Cored. It's a conundrum.

 

[Egil]

The problem is that no one has the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with their body.

Really? What if you are an asymptomatic carrier of an infectious disease?

 

[Baby Nemesis]

If only there were some kind of cheap, simple, readily available device that greatly reduces the risk of sexually transmitted disease.

There is. It's called an ice cube. What happens is that men put it down their trousers, and it keeps their hormones in check.

Or was your post an ironic reference to the fact that we're not all eulogising condoms as the cheap, cheerful and perfect solution? If so, Here's one reason why.

 

[Foolmewunz]

There is. It's called an ice cube. What happens is that men put it down their trousers, and it keeps their hormones in check.

Or was your post an ironic reference to the fact that we're not all eulogising condoms as the cheap, cheerful and perfect solution? If so, Here's one reason why.

Ice cubes down women's pants don't work?

 

[luchog]

Well, according to the article about STD rates in New Zealand Professor Yaffle posted, STD rates have gone up quite a bit there in the years since prostitution was legalised, though it's probably impossible to tell how much, if anything, that has to do with it. From the article:

Don't really have the time to go through the article; but just had a few thought jump to mind. Does it break the increase down by demographic? Does it actually link to prostitution in any way?

In the US (and I believe that this is echoed in most of the English-speaking world at least), STDs are on the increase as well. The vast majority of that increase is among teens, particularly Black females.

 

[rkzenrage]

Really? What if you are an asymptomatic carrier of an infectious disease?

Then you are going to affect other's bodies without their consent... different discussion.

 

[JJM 777]

If a client catches an STD at a brothel, the brothel owner is explicitly liable.

What if a girl gets STD from a customer, is the customer´s grandmom explicitly liable?

 

[Vorticity]

"Selling is legal. ####ing is legal. Why isn't selling ####ing legal?"

-George Carlin

 

[ThunderChunky]

I can't find the article now but the main theme was that when you sleep with someone, you by extension sleep with all the people they slept with.

Horse poop, the article you read is apparently garbage. Yes, there is higher risk for STDs if you sleep around, but this whole 'you slept with everyone they slept with' idea is crap.

Many STDs are only temporary, not everyone has STDs, the transmission rate for STDs is not 100%, and protection and hygiene can further reduce risk of transmission.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

How carefully would you drive if there were a 6-inch spike mounted on the steering wheel?

The point is kinda moot anyway. There are places, e.g., Bavaria, who made it mandatory to use condoms, and I haven't heard of any riots because of it, nor of them being swamped in a black market sex instead.

So, dunno, it's not like one can't legislate that kinda thing, if you really fear some kind of pressure for unprotected self.

And while my first hand experience is, sadly, non-existent and maybe I should, ahem, do some hands-on studying the problem before posting from what I hear, brothels enforcing a mandatory condom policy isn't unusual at all even in the counties that don't have such laws.

Obviously, whatever market pressures are at work there, they can still decide that they don't want to serve certain market segments. And they don't seem to go out of business for doing so.

At a wild guess, while they probably do lose a few customers who are crazy enough to actually want unprotected sex with someone who screws around without protection, there must be a compensating factor in the other direction. I can imagine it being a reassuring factor for other people. After all, if she has less of a probability to get a disease from someone else, she's less likely to pass it on to you.

I mean precisely _because_ condom protection isn't 100% guaranteed, I know I wouldn't mind an extra layer of defense, so to speak, if I ever decided to use the services of those hard-working women. I'd rather that, if the damned thing breaks or something, it's also less likely that she got some disease since the last health test.