Proof that Materialism is Dead

[evildave]

Like I said chance has "nothing" to do with it.

....

However if you were a spiritualist, you would understand that spirits "do" exist, and yet they are not of "this realm." In which case it's either a true assessment or it isn't and, is not contingent upon any likelihood.

Well, it all boils down to if you want me to change my behavior according to what the spirits "want" then, isn't it?

If these spirits live in a "different realm" (aka different dimension, different universe, different reality), (oh, and by the same reasoning Smurfs and Leprechauns and Sprites and Keebler Elves exist in a "different ream"), then what's are they to me?

Absolutely nothing. OK, silly stories, and I like silly stories.

Should we build bridges differently to accomodate Keebler Elves, er 'spirits'? I know the great wall in China is said to have been build with curves because it was thought that demons would only travel in straight lines, after all.

Should we mandate special 'spritual' safety devices on cars? Maybe an explosive auto-baptism holy water device to go in with the air bag and a radio that switches to scripture in the event of an accident? I'm sure it would be hot stuff for the hopelessly superstitious.

 

[evildave]

Nope. My only claim is that you didn't -- and apparently don't -- understand what I said. I had hoped someone might, and actually respond.

Perhaps you'll simply have to explain Bell's Theorem (discovered by and defined using materialistic methods, BTW) and its relevence to materialism being 'debunked'?

It looks to me like it demonstrates my point that materialism will stretch to fit any new oddities that are discovered in the universe, rather than be 'invalidated'. It is the very framework under which these oddities are discovered, analyzed and discussed. The framework could expand or change, but it's not likely to be discarded over a few pesky quirks. Especially when these so-called 'quirks' are the key to new discoveries.

These 'illogical' quirks do go a long way toward demonstrating that the basic 'logical' processes we have, especially true/false type is flawed for many kinds of applications. Something materialism and practical tests has a better chance of evolving solutions to that sitting in a vacuum, arguing over angels and pins.

 

[hammegk]

Perhaps you'll simply have to explain Bell's Theorem (discovered by and defined using materialistic methods, BTW) and its relevence to materialism being 'debunked'?

It looks to me like it demonstrates my point that materialism will stretch to fit any new oddities that are discovered in the universe, rather than be 'invalidated'. It is the very framework under which these oddities are discovered, analyzed and discussed. The framework could expand or change, but it's not likely to be discarded over a few pesky quirks. Especially when these so-called 'quirks' are the key to new discoveries.

These 'illogical' quirks do go a long way toward demonstrating that the basic 'logical' processes we have, especially true/false type is flawed for many kinds of applications. Something materialism and practical tests has a better chance of evolving solutions to that sitting in a vacuum, arguing over angels and pins.

Note that you assumed materialism is true (or, maybe you prefer to think that objective physical reality exists, and Reality is a local phenomena). Your discussion then follows logically. That is the best you will ever do.

Good ploy: "agree with my premise, and I'll 'prove' my premise True". It is getting old, though.


If you are actually interested, perhaps you should start a thread in science stating that "in accordance with Aspect-Bell, objective reality exists and reality is a local phenomena". Perhaps Tez or Stimpy will agree with that statement. Or not; I don't intend to discuss it anymore with you. Feel free to call me a liar.

 

[evildave]

Note that you assumed materialism is true (or, maybe you prefer to think that objective physical reality exists, and Reality is a local phenomena). Your discussion then follows logically. That is the best you will ever do.

Good ploy: "agree with my premise, and I'll 'prove' my premise True". It is getting old, though.


If you are actually interested, perhaps you should start a thread in science stating that "in accordance with Aspect-Bell, objective reality exists and reality is a local phenomena". Perhaps Tez or Stimpy will agree with that statement. Or not; I don't intend to discuss it anymore with you. Feel free to call me a liar.

Oh I think you would be better off starting a thread stating "in accordance with Aspect-Bell, objective reality DOES NOT exist and reality is a NON-local phenomena", "in accordance with Aspect-Bell, objective reality exists and reality is a NON-local phenomena", or "in accordance with Aspect-Bell, objective reality DOES NOT exist and reality is a local phenomena".

Whichever case you believe, and looking at the above sentences, we have another statement that is not trivially invertible, which is another point about the weakness of pure 'logic' versus practical discovery.

A 'defects of logic' thread might be more fun.

 

[hammegk]

A 'defects of logic' thread might be more fun.

Well, one of your three word arrangements makes sense in the context I'm discussing and is my choice (and Bell's). Care to guess which one? His other choice was the super-determinism option -- which neither proves nor disproves materialism.

 

[Iacchus]

Well, it all boils down to if you want me to change my behavior according to what the spirits "want" then, isn't it?

No, what it boils down to is what's most suitable for you. I'm just merely offering an explanation.

If these spirits live in a "different realm" (aka different dimension, different universe, different reality), (oh, and by the same reasoning Smurfs and Leprechauns and Sprites and Keebler Elves exist in a "different ream"), then what's are they to me?

Absolutely nothing. OK, silly stories, and I like silly stories.

Should we build bridges differently to accomodate Keebler Elves, er 'spirits'? I know the great wall in China is said to have been build with curves because it was thought that demons would only travel in straight lines, after all.

Should we mandate special 'spritual' safety devices on cars? Maybe an explosive auto-baptism holy water device to go in with the air bag and a radio that switches to scripture in the event of an accident? I'm sure it would be hot stuff for the hopelessly superstitious.

Or if nothing else, maybe some of us need to be reassured that there's something more to life than the cold shoulder of indifference?

 

[evildave]

What? Indifference? Don't other people give you comfort? Their views, perspectives, attention, caring?

 

[Iacchus]

What? Indifference? Don't other people give you comfort? Their views, perspectives, attention, caring?

Ever find that most people tend to be agreeable when you agree with them? And don't in fact thieves and robbers love thieves and robbers?

 

[evildave]

What? Your friends and family, too?