Proof that Christians are being persecuted; or------

Nosi said:
This guy did something to SERIOUSLY cheese off the neighbors. There's a reason why zoning laws exist.
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But he did call the city to ask if his neighborhood was zoned in such a way as to prevent churches and he was told that the neighborhood could have churches.

As for cheesing off neighbors, I am pretty sure that if your neighbors say "hey, let's reconsider the building a church thing because it is going to hurt everyone's property values" and you say "if you folks were real Christians you wouldn't mind lower property values as long as God's Word is being spread" then you have reached the point where Bugs Bunny stands up and says "of course, you know: this means war."

which was snagged from the Marx Brothers, but nobody does it like the Bugs.
 
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Travis said:
Christians will complain they are oppressed even as they turn America into a theocracy where speaking ill of Jesus gets you a bullet to the head.
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Nail em up I say
nail some sense into them
:D
 
I'd support it but then it's also fun to disintegrate Daily Fail claims too.
 
commandlinegamer said:
Rule 94*: Thou shalt not cite any Associated Newspapers publication, inc. Daily Mail, Mail on Sunday, Metro, Mailonline as evidence.

* - proposed. Seconders please?
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I just thought it was interesting that the Daily Fail had a more balanced article than this thread started with.

Manopolus posted the one I should have looked for.
 
The last few years, I attended a large church with a building that could only be accessed by driving through a residential area. It is a major hassle on the residents, even though we followed all local and zoning laws, had our own on-site lots for cars, and worked hard to try to reduce the negative impact.

Zoning laws exist for a reason. Your use of your land can affect your neighbors, and it's reasonable for your neighbors to have certain expectations as to the uses of nearby properties when they choose to move there.

I have little sympathy for a man trying to turn a residential property into a large church without regard for local laws.
 
AvalonXQ said:
The last few years, I attended a large church with a building that could only be accessed by driving through a residential area. It is a major hassle on the residents, even though we followed all local and zoning laws, had our own on-site lots for cars, and worked hard to try to reduce the negative impact.

Zoning laws exist for a reason. Your use of your land can affect your neighbors, and it's reasonable for your neighbors to have certain expectations as to the uses of nearby properties when they choose to move there.
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But building a church on his land is not necessarily in violation of the zoning codes. He called the city before breaking ground.

AvalonXQ said:
I have little sympathy for a man trying to turn a residential property into a large church without regard for local laws.
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Part of the problem was he was trying to build a little church and the city said that churches are allowed only if they are the primary structure on the property, so to complete the plan, he had to increase the size of his building.


I am not saying he is in the right. I'm starting to believe that the best perspective might be to say everyone is wrong.
 
Ladewig said:
But he did call the city to ask if his neighborhood was zoned in such a way as to prevent churches and he was told that the neighborhood could have churches.

As for cheesing off neighbors, I am pretty sure that if your neighbors say "hey, let's reconsider the building a church thing because it is going to hurt everyone's property values" and you say "if you folks were real Christians you wouldn't mind lower property values as long as God's Word is being spread" then you have reached the point where Bugs Bunny stands up and says "of course, you know: this means war."

which was snagged from the Marx Brothers, but nobody does it like the Bugs.
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There's more to this than mere religion I think. Consider, there are more flavors of Christians than there are ice creams. If you want to nit pick the bottom of the garbage can, Warren Jeffs is 'Christian'.

:gasp:
 
The guy is a douche but he does have a right to legally build his church. It is allowed within the zoning code of Phoenix. And with RLUIPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Land_Use_and_Institutionalized_Persons_Act) the Feds will back him up.

The kicker to the whole thing, for those who didn't read the article, is that he doesn't have the money to build the church and won't unless his congregation gets bigger or he can sue Phoenix under RLUIPA and win himself a nice judgment.
 
Spindrift said:
The kicker to the whole thing, for those who didn't read the article, is that he doesn't have the money to build the church and won't unless his congregation gets bigger or he can sue Phoenix under RLUIPA and win himself a nice judgment.
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A time honored economic plan. I think it's in the Bible somewhere...
 
Nosi said:
There's more to this than mere religion I think. Consider, there are more flavors of Christians than there are ice creams.
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I can easily imagine replacing this guy's wanting to build a church with this guy wanting to build a 40-foot statue of George Washington and neither of the positions changing much.

"If you were a real American you wouldn't mind losing some of your property value to honor America's first president."
 
Robrob said:
A time honored economic plan. I think it's in the Bible somewhere...
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Of course, Matthew 5:40 "And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well."

The tricky bit is getting the city to follow Jesus's words.
 
Ladewig said:
I can easily imagine replacing this guy's wanting to build a church with this guy wanting to build a 40-foot statue of George Washington and neither of the positions changing much.

"If you were a real American you wouldn't mind losing some of your property value to honor America's first president."
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There positions wouldn't change much but there is the slight detail that churches ARE permitted in the neighborhood under the zoming regs, while I would doubt that 40 ft statues are.

I don't agree with him wanting to build his church in the middle of the neighborhood, but he is within the rules to do so.
 
AvalonXQ said:
I have little sympathy for a man trying to turn a residential property into a large church without regard for local laws.
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Salmon's troubles with the city began long before he thought of putting a church building on his property.

The city was banning private meetings in his living room and even broke up a good friday gathering. I can understand something like that happening in communist Russia but the USA?
 
psionl0 said:
Salmon's troubles with the city began long before he thought of putting a church building on his property.

The city was banning private meetings in his living room and even broke up a good friday gathering. I can understand something like that happening in communist Russia but the USA?
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Yea next you will need government approval to run a business or build something.on your own property.
 
psionl0 said:
Did you even read what you quoted?
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Yes. There are all kinds of reasons why he could well legitimately run afoul of the law that was not accounted for in that blanket statement.

It could also be not legitimate. We don't have enough information about the details and history.
 
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