Proof of Photomanipulation

[DGM]

You placed the cab between TA3 and TA4.

I completely agree with you that the way I labeled that picture isn't correct, but its because there is no way to label it so that it correlates with reality. See photo #3 for a clear picture of the cab and white car.

Actually there is. Stop assuming what things are and place them according to the line of sight on the overhead.

I've been playing with this and so far nothing is out of place.

 

[NYCEMT86]

You placed the cab between TA3 and TA4.

I completely agree with you that the way I labeled that picture isn't correct, but its because there is no way to label it so that it correlates with reality. See photo #3 for a clear picture of the cab and white car.

The problem is, you have marked the location of the cab more south than it should be.

Looking at photo DSC_0420 time taken: 9:56, we can see that vehicle is actually closer the bridge. The location of the cab is between TA3 and TA4. Using streetview, you can see that were the stone and the railing are further north than your X in slide 4.

Looking at photo DSC_0421 time taken: 9:57 (your photo 2), you marked the lightpole as B, which it is. But when looking at the rest of your outlines and listening to your logic, it would be Lightpole A we should be looking at instead.

 

[NYCEMT86]

be careful as the road markings, lanes etc may have changed between 911 and now. Use the history feature in google maps to get the lanes as on 911. Penny Elgas for example describes pulling off the road just past where llloyd was, going right and down to the pentagon car park. You can't do that now but on 911 you could as the off ramps/traffic barriers have changed.

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the feature. I just downloaded google earth and trying it out now.

 

[Mobertermy]

Looking at photo DSC_0420 time taken: 9:56, we can see that vehicle is actually closer the bridge. The location of the cab is between TA3 and TA4.

Absolutely incorrect the cab is not on the bridge. The cab is between TA2 and TA3.

Looking at photo DSC_0421 time taken: 9:57 (your photo 2), you marked the lightpole as B, which it is. But when looking at the rest of your outlines and listening to your logic, it would be Lightpole A we should be looking at instead.

That's because the pictures are wrong.

 

[Mobertermy]

Actually there is. Stop assuming what things are and place them according to the line of sight on the overhead.

I've been playing with this and so far nothing is out of place.

You made an incorrect statement here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6738121&postcount=45

Your explanation doesn't work...just compare photos #1 and #3 and you will see that TA1 can't be what ou marked it as because we know the cab is between TA3 and TA4. Look at a google map of the Traffic Arms...the conclusion I came to is that Photo #1 has an extra traffic arm. That in itself is proof of photo manipulation.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Absolutely incorrect the cab is not on the bridge. The cab is between TA2 and TA3.

No, it's not. According to your information, your labels, it is not.

You mislabeled your own photos. Using google earth, google maps, and street view, we can see that TA1 is all the way to the right in photo 1, then TA2 underneath the signs, then TA3, the white car, then cab, then TA4 is on the left edge of the photo.

My location of the cab may not be 100% correct, but in photo 2, that is TA3, not TA2 at the edge of the photo.

That's because the pictures are wrong.

No, you haven't proven that. The only thing you have been able to prove is your inability to use landmarks to pin point a position correctly.

 

[alienentity]

You made an incorrect statement here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6738121&postcount=45

Your explanation doesn't work...just compare photos #1 and #3 and you will see that TA1 can't be what ou marked it as because we know the cab is between TA3 and TA4. Look at a google map of the Traffic Arms...the conclusion I came to is that Photo #1 has an extra traffic arm. That in itself is proof of photo manipulation.

Is there any point to all of this? You are quibbling endlessly about the appearance of a few photos which seem to be ambiguous.

Yet out of the hundreds of eyewitnesses, there are plenty who saw a commercial airliner fly into the Pentagon, snapping off light poles.

Nothing that you are presenting will alter those basic facts. So what on earth do you hope to accomplish? You're not going to touch those basic facts.

 

[NYCEMT86]

You made an incorrect statement here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6738121&postcount=45

Your explanation doesn't work...just compare photos #1 and #3 and you will see that TA1 can't be what ou marked it as because we know the cab is between TA3 and TA4. Look at a google map of the Traffic Arms...the conclusion I came to is that Photo #1 has an extra traffic arm. That in itself is proof of photo manipulation.

Stundie!


Wow though....instead of admitting you are incorrect, its just photo manipulation.

 

[DGM]

You made an incorrect statement here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6738121&postcount=45

Your explanation doesn't work...just compare photos #1 and #3 and you will see that TA1 can't be what ou marked it as because we know the cab is between TA3 and TA4. Look at a google map of the Traffic Arms...the conclusion I came to is that Photo #1 has an extra traffic arm. That in itself is proof of photo manipulation.

According to your overhead it's between TA2 and TA3. (like you said in post #64).

 

[Mobertermy]

My location of the cab may not be 100% correct, but in photo 2, that is TA3, not TA2 at the edge of the photo.

Absolutely false. take a look at photo #3, you can see that the traffic arm on TA3 is down and to the left of the cab...for the cab to get to the bridge it would have to drive through the down arm of TA3. The traffic arm of TA2 is down in the opposite direction.

 

[Mobertermy]

According to your overhead it's between TA2 and TA3. (like you said in post #64).

Yes, I meant TA2 and TA3...take a look at what you are saying about TA1 in photo #1 and you'll see the picture is impossible, because for TA1 to be where you say it is in Photo #1 then the cab would be between TA3 and TA4.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[beachnut]

Hey,
I just made a new powerpoint presentation which proves photo manipulation at the Pentagon. It specifically deals with the cab driver Lloyde England, the man CIT accused of being an accomplice. If you have the time you can view it at my blog http://slothrop-blogjammin.blogspot.com/ I'm interested in seeing what you hard core debunkers have to say about it.

Don't be gentle.

(Note: this isn't a plug for my "blog"...it's just that I can't post a powerpoint presentation here.)

Instead of proving photo manipulation, you proved you failed to use your expert photo interpreter skills on your new PP presentation, leading to erroneous conclusions (Implications). Using CIT nonsense to make up your own nonsense is not a good idea.

 

[Mobertermy]

You are not a competent photo interpreter, verified by your presentation and failed conclusion. Your failed when you try to make up nonsense using CIT nonsense and your failed photo interpreter skills.

Bare assertion.

 

[NYCEMT86]

Absolutely false. take a look at photo #3, you can see that the traffic arm on TA3 is down and to the left of the cab...for the cab to get to the bridge it would have to drive through the down arm of TA3. The traffic arm of TA2 is down in the opposite direction.

You are assuming that TA3 is in the same lane as the Cab, which in fact it is not, because all of the TA's face east in the center barrier next to the lane where the cab is. It is a restricted lane (possibly a carpool lane).

 

[beachnut]

Bare assertion.

You have no evidence, yet you proved without a doubt you are not a photo interpreter. Where is the math, the lens used, etc?

There is no NoC, and your conclusion makes no sense, it is a paranoid conspiracy theory. What is your overall take on the Pentagon?

Your presentation is a bare assertion made with nonsense.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Lloyde makes that comment after being told by CIT that ALL the witnesses say the play crossed over the road further down in a successful attempt to confuse him. he merely remembers the big details so meekly says the pictures are wrong to line himself up with what he is being told is reality.
However CIT were lying and Lloyde was where the pictures showed him to be.

It was a cruel trick to play on an old man but about par for CIT

Nothing could be further from the truth. Craig desperately tries to get Lloyde to admit that he was where the photos show him to be (which would contradict CIT's theory). Over and over again. Lloyde insists he wasn't there. Mobertermy has correctly described it in #53. Watch it yourself if you don't believe it:

Lloyde England and His Taxi Cab - The Eye of the Storm

 

[DGM]

Yes, I meant TA2 and TA3...take a look at what you are saying about TA1 in photo #1 and you'll see the picture is impossible, because for TA1 to be where you say it is in Photo #1 then the cab would be between TA3 and TA4.
Sorry for the confusion.

Perspective makes it appear that way. That's why you need to draw a line of sight on the overhead for each picture. Try it, what do you got to lose.

 

[Mobertermy]

Perspective makes it appear that way. That's why you need to draw a line of sight on the overhead for each picture. Try it, what do you got to lose.

It has nothing to do with perspective. The cab is between TA2 and TA3, therefore what you said was TA1 isn't right. In fact there is an extra non-existent traffic arm in the Ingersoll photo.

 

[Mobertermy]

You are assuming that TA3 is in the same lane as the Cab,

No I'm not.

which in fact it is not, because all of the TA's face east in the center barrier next to the lane where the cab is. It is a restricted lane (possibly a carpool lane).

The arms of the TAs can go down in either direction...TA3 is down in the opposite direction of TA2. TA3 blocks the lane the cab is in.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I don't have time to look into this right now but i payed a short visit to the place where the cab is supposed to have been and took a shot of the Pentagon.