Proof of logic

JetLeg said:
I don't think that people lie about their relationship with god, and the place religion takes in their lives.
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DIdn't we just have this discussion about "special pleading"?

Why do people lie about everything else except their relationship with God?

And, in fact, people do lie about their relationship with God. Look at how many criminals managed to mysteriously "find God" just before their sentencing hearing, only to lose Him again almost instantly when the judge still sentences them to five years. Look at how many people "find God" when it's time for a parole hearing.... For that matter, look at how many people "find God" when they want to get out of the Army and are filling out a conscientious objector form....
 
JetLeg said:
I don't think that people lie about their relationship with god, and the place religion takes in their lives.
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The fact that the leaders of the church, who above all know what the "punishment" for their "sins" will be, molest children at a rate orders of magnitude greater than the rest of the population is pretty strong evidence to the contrary.
 
drkitten said:
DIdn't we just have this discussion about "special pleading"?

Why do people lie about everything else except their relationship with God?

And, in fact, people do lie about their relationship with God. Look at how many criminals managed to mysteriously "find God" just before their sentencing hearing, only to lose Him again almost instantly when the judge still sentences them to five years. Look at how many people "find God" when it's time for a parole hearing.... For that matter, look at how many people "find God" when they want to get out of the Army and are filling out a conscientious objector form....
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I meant, lying not in a context in which they have a concrete benefit from it, like in the cases above. When believers are asked about the importance religion plays in their life, or about their religious experience, or about their mystical experiences, and not in court\army, but in a context of a research about religion, I expect them not to lie.
 
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JetLeg said:
I meant, lying not in a context in which they have a concrete benefit from it, like in the cases above. When believers are asked about the importance religion plays in their life, or about their religious experience, or about their mystical experiences, and not in court\army, but in a context of a research about religion, I expect them not to lie.
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Why? More accurately, how do you know that they aren't expecting a concrete benefit from it, even in a social context? Perhaps the woman hanging on your informant's arm is his wealthy fiancee and the deeply religious daughter of a preacher, who would be horrified if he were to claim anything other than a "personal relationship with God." She need not even be there, since if he's at all smart, he will recognize that the best way to keep a lie together is to continue to tell it even when she's not around (since gossip travels).

Social pressure (= conformity) is one of the biggest reasons that people lie. Given the tremendous amount of social importance placed on religion by those so inclined, my experience is that religion is among the most frequently lied-about topics.
 
JetLeg said:
I meant, lying not in a context in which they have a concrete benefit from it, like in the cases above. When believers are asked about the importance religion plays in their life, or about their religious experience, or about their mystical experiences, and not in court\army, but in a context of a research about religion, I expect them not to lie.
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Perhaps. But this is not a useful derail, anyway. The point is, people CAN lie, so I never expect that simply reporting what people say, about any subject, tells me the whole story. That was all I was saying.
 
Oh, and by the way, yes, people lie in those situations about just that, if only because they think that they MAY be able to fool themselves, and God in the process, that they really do have faith.
 
drkitten said:
Given the tremendous amount of social importance placed on religion by those so inclined, my experience is that religion is among the most frequently lied-about topics.
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What was your experience of people lying about their religion?
 
JetLeg said:
What was your experience of people lying about their religion?
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Entirely irrelevant. It suffices to say that it happens, and therefore there is ample reason to believe that the statement people would not lie about their religion is empirically disproved and can not be relied upon as a basis for rational discourse.
 
Systems of logic establish their own rules which, according to the particular system of logic, are self proving and dependent upon reason.
"Logic" does not seem to be designed to discover universal truths but, rather, 'truths' or conclusions inferred from
pre established premises.
 
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Dr Kitten,

How do explain why your post #290, which was posted one minute AFTER Belz's post #291, appears BEFORE his post?

Surely that defies logic!

BJ
 
BillyJoe said:
How do explain why your post #290, which was posted one minute AFTER Belz's post #291, appears BEFORE his post?
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I type at speeds exceeding those of light.

Thus proving that sarcasm moves faster than light.
 
Well then, seeing as Belz types at a rate of 38 words per minute, his posts must be characterised by something other than sarcasm.

Why does my conclusion seem wrong? :cool:
 
A bizarre question

No tool is perfect, but if I need to drive a nail, I'll still reach for a hammer. A little rust on it won't hurt.

Logic will have to do till something better comes along.

Keep me posted.
 
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