Proof of Immortality, VI

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godless dave said:
Then we're done. There's no sense trying to prove magic with Bayesian statistics.

I don't believe in true free will.

I don't believe in ultimate meaning at all.
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- Yeah. We probably are done.

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence." It appears that this perception originates in the holistic hemisphere, and that either the analytic hemisphere is "transcendence-blind" or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
- Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic, and most of those neither sense nor imagine transcendence. If no one here at least "suspects in" free will or ultimate meaning, it probably is time for me to give up the ghost...
- My basic claim is that the likelihood of my current existence approaches zero under OOFLam -- and in a meaningful sense, I am, in fact, "set apart" from everyone else (as are they) -- and OOFLam must be wrong. Since even you don't suspect any truth to my claim, I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
- Thanks for your time.
 
Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.
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What, already? We haven't even moved past the claim stage yet!

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence."
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I sense Zeus and Sauron.

- Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic, and most of those neither sense nor imagine transcendence.
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You say that as if it's a bad thing. That was an improvement in how humans thought.

- My basic claim is that
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STOP REPEATING YOUR CLAIM.

I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
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So you cannot, in fact, learn anything?

Thanks for your time.
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Insulting.
 
Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence." It appears that this perception originates in the holistic hemisphere, and that either the analytic hemisphere is "transcendence-blind" or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
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Since you're the fallacy master, you may as well add "poisoning the well" to your portfolio. You've been schooled on that many times already.

- Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic, and most of those neither sense nor imagine transcendence. If no one here at least "suspects in" free will or ultimate meaning, it probably is time for me to give up the ghost...
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It's time for you to stop your aimless navel gazing. You've been scolded for this many times also.

- My basic claim is that the likelihood of my current existence approaches zero under OOFLam
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No, that wasn't your basic claim. Disproving your made up nonsense in no way proves your other made up nonsense. This has been explained to you countless times and you've been unable to counter the rebuttals.

-- and in a meaningful sense, I am, in fact, "set apart" from everyone else (as are they)
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No. Explain the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy to me again for the first time. You've been asked dozens of times.

-- and OOFLam must be wrong.
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No, you've not shown that. You simply state that it "must" because otherwise, your other made up nonsense is wrong. You've tried this numerous times and been shot down each time

Since even you don't suspect any truth to my claim, I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
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Noting the number of mistakes you repeat, you don't actually seem to have learned anything at all.

- Thanks for your time.
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No, thank YOU.
 
Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence." It appears that this perception originates in the holistic hemisphere, and that either the analytic hemisphere is "transcendence-blind" or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
- Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic, and most of those neither sense nor imagine transcendence. If no one here at least "suspects in" free will or ultimate meaning, it probably is time for me to give up the ghost...
- My basic claim is that the likelihood of my current existence approaches zero under OOFLam -- and in a meaningful sense, I am, in fact, "set apart" from everyone else (as are they) -- and OOFLam must be wrong. Since even you don't suspect any truth to my claim, I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
- Thanks for your time.
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Your claim is wrong and your attempts to support it, let alone prove it, have been found wanting at every turn.

I am sceptical that this is the end of the thread
 
Jabba said:
-- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence." It appears that this perception originates in the holistic hemisphere, and that either the analytic hemisphere is "transcendence-blind" or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
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If you're talking about the brain: there is no such thing as "the holistic hemisphere" or "the analytic hemisphere".

There are well known and well understood brain malfunctions that can produce all sorts of faulty perceptions.
 
Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence."
Click to expand...

Do you sense it or imagine it? Those are two entirely different things. I can imagine all kinds of things that I can't sense. That's the fun thing about imagination, you can conceive of things that don't exist.
 
Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.
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Yes, literally years ago.

Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic...
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And here comes the same old face-saving garbage you tried before. Your argument failed not because of what your critics can't imagine, but because of what you can't imagine. You can't imagine an H that's fundamentally different from what you already believe.

Lest you forget, your "I'm so much better a thinker than you all" argument has the following rebuttal, which you've never addressed despite my having posted it several times the last time you tried this insulting nonsense.

1. There's no such thing as "holistic" or "analytical" thinking in the way you mean. That's an old theory of thought that has been discarded for lack of evidence.
2. You provide no evidence that your critics are "analytical" thinkers, or thinkers in any way that is any more limited than you.
3. You provide no evidence that you are a "holistic" thinker, or a thinker in any way that is any more expansive than your critics. In fact, quite the opposite.
4. You have specifically told us you will provide a mathematical proof. Mathematics is the essence of "analytical" thinking in the taxonomy you're trying to foist. Therefore newly requiring some sort of "transcendent" thinking in order to understood your proof is the failure of your proof.

It doesn't matter how much nonsensical navel-gazing you can produce: none of it belongs in H. Your critics don't allow it in H not because they can't imagine or conceive of it, but because it does not belong there. They are right and you are wrong on that point.

My basic claim is that the likelihood of my current existence approaches zero under OOFLam
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No, that was not your claim. The implication of your formulation was that it was zero, being scaled by a likelihood ratio that used the concept of infinity as its denominator and was thus a zero coefficient. As I explained already to you, you're misusing the concept of limits to try to save yourself from a clearly wrong formulation. There is nothing in your formulation that "approaches" anything, or in any way invokes a limit. You're just using the word "approaches" because you were told something about limits and infinity that you didn't quite understand, but which used that word. Hence you're using that word, hoping you've used it correctly. You haven't.

...and in a meaningful sense, I am, in fact, "set apart" from everyone else (as are they)
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Asked and answered. That's an inherent contradiction. If you're special and everyone's special in the same way, then you're not meaningfully "set apart." You've provided no evidence showing how you're "set apart" that doesn't boil down to "...because I was chosen." That's exactly the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

Since even you don't suspect any truth to my claim, I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
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You haven't learned a thing because you still think you're right and, as usual, have shifted blame for your failure to your long-suffering critics. We don't merely "suspect" your argument is wrong; we can -- and have -- proved it.
 
Knew it alll along. (Shoulda claimed it.) You goddamn skepticads and your little cold dry analytical hemispheres! If you had a pair o' hemispheres like Jabba's, you'd understand how transcendantly right he is!

Hemispheres? Aw pfui! All you got is microspheres!

Right, Jabba? Hello?
 
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Jabba said:
- Yeah. We probably are done.

- I sense, or imagine, something I call "transcendence." It appears that this perception originates in the holistic hemisphere, and that either the analytic hemisphere is "transcendence-blind" or the holistic hemisphere hallucinates.
- Then, it appears that most everyone who has participated in this thread is highly analytic, and most of those neither sense nor imagine transcendence. If no one here at least "suspects in" free will or ultimate meaning, it probably is time for me to give up the ghost...
- My basic claim is that the likelihood of my current existence approaches zero under OOFLam -- and in a meaningful sense, I am, in fact, "set apart" from everyone else (as are they) -- and OOFLam must be wrong. Since even you don't suspect any truth to my claim, I've probably learned all I can from this debate.
- Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...

It's hard to learn anything when you ignore everything that contradicts your preconceived notions. Your lack of ability to learn from the debate rests entirely with yourself.
 
godless dave said:
Do you sense it or imagine it? Those are two entirely different things. I can imagine all kinds of things that I can't sense. That's the fun thing about imagination, you can conceive of things that don't exist.
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- I think that I sense it.
 
Jabba said:
- I think that I sense it.
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Yeah, that's called imagining.

So basically you've now admitted that you, in fact, cannot prove anything you've said, mathematically or otherwise.

Hey, I imagine tons of things, but I don't claim that they're true. They're fun fantasies, and sometimes I'd like them to be true. But as I told you before, part of growing up is realising that your fantasies are just that.
 
Oh, and Jabba, remind us again: if your self is so unlikely under the materialistic model, how do you figure it is more likely that your self exists with both the brain (which is all that's required for your self in the materialistic model) and a separate entity (soul) that somehow connects to your brain?
 
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