Proof of Immortality III

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Okay "person." But Jabba's.... err let's just call it loquaciousness and need to pretend he can explain things he provably can't is the only thing separating this trainwreck from billions of people's widespread beliefs.

It's like I said earlier. If Jabba just dropped the act and went "I believe in a soul that survives death and I take that on faith" this would be one of the most mainstream beliefs ever put forth on this forum.
 
Color me confused. Jabba because of your postings in the shroud thread I came to the conclusion that you were a Christian and would be spending the next bazillion years in Heaven. Now we have you being reincarnated. Will your soul be in two places at the same time or is Heaven now out of the picture?
 
fibbermcgee said:
Color me confused. Jabba because of your postings in the shroud thread I came to the conclusion that you were a Christian and would be spending the next bazillion years in Heaven. Now we have you being reincarnated. Will your soul be in two places at the same time or is Heaven now out of the picture?
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His original, stated, mission was "to give a fair trial to Jesus".
That's why he piddles around arguing about how to argue, and trying to redefine words. He imagines himself as some sort of courtroom lawyer.
Hence all his endless questions designed to trick the jury.
(If only the jury were a bunch of deaf hamsters).

But all is not list.

From the holy courtroom that brought you:
Jabba said:
Dave,

- Would you exist if your parents had never met?
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...I'm sure we'll hear more tripe.
 
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Jabba said:
Would you exist if your parents had never met?
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Of course not, but then again I'm not a special snowflake. You are still trying to use this factoid as a statistical argument that life is improbable. Until you dig yourself out of this wrong-headed notion, you will just keep spinning the same broken arguments from chapter to chapter.

Consider just for once the possibility that you may be wrong.
 
JayUtah said:
Exactly. He's trying to elicit anything he can style as an expression of agreement -- a "gotcha!" He hasn't shown any interest in actually discovering fact or testing belief.
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Agreed. He's even grovelled for such expressions. He doesn't seem to understand how transparent this conduct is.
 
Jabba said:
- But prior to their meeting, wouldn't you be a potential person?
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There is no such thing as a potential person any more than there is a potential mountain. One does not walk around Nebraska cornfields saying, "This is going to be a great mountain, someday. "
 
fibbermcgee said:
Color me confused. Jabba because of your postings in the shroud thread I came to the conclusion that you were a Christian and would be spending the next bazillion years in Heaven. Now we have you being reincarnated. Will your soul be in two places at the same time or is Heaven now out of the picture?
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He wants immortality no matter how he has to get it
 
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- Wouldn't a sperm cell and ovum represent a potential person?
 
Jabba said:
- But prior to their meeting, wouldn't you be a potential person?
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If someone knew both of my parents they could imagine that they might have a child together, and might imagine what that child might be like based on the heritable characteristics of each of my parents. You could do that with any two people who were alive and of reproductive age at the same time. But when I'm talking about "people" I'm talking about people who exist, not potential people that we can imagine.
 
John Jones said:
He wants immortality no matter how he has to get it
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He wants to keep redefining life, existence, or whatever so that his predetermined belief can somehow sneak through on lexical grounds alone. Nearly all of Jabba's arguments seem to be work games and equivocation clearly designed to trick at least one person into "admitting" that his religious beliefs are true or plausible by a mechanism other than faith.
 
Jabba, the "at most" thing is really tangential to the point I was making, which is that your formula depends on the existence of souls.

I suspect that most people who believe in souls already believe that souls can live on after the death of the physical body, so I'm not clear who your formula is trying to convince.
 
There isn't any such thing as a potential person. At best, the concept is something so hypothetical it's meaningless. At worst, it's nonsense. Here I am living in the same time-frame as Ewan McGregor, but there are no "potential people" arising from that fact. Even if we were to meet* (unlikely but not impossible), have sex (getting less plausible by the moment) and I were to conceive a child as a result (very unlikely), that child was not ever "a potential person". It would be a person at some point at or after conception, YMMV as to exactly when that would be.

*ETA We have actually once been at the same pub at the same time, but I don't call that meeting.
 
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Any guy who has....ummm....done some self service, has had thousands of potential persons wash down the drain. Where are they now Jabba?
 
Jabba said:
- Wouldn't a sperm cell and ovum represent a potential person?
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Jabba -

Are you enjoying all these summer activities with your family like I am? Two nights ago, we went to a baseball game and this week there a circus in town. I hope the summer is treating you well.

Two haploids would NOT represent a potential person. I'll tell you why, and it's the same mistake you continue to make regardless of how it is explained. There is no such thing as a person. What we designate as "Ewan McGregor" is merely a vague concept given a name so people can speak about it.

The individual sperm and ovum from Mr. and Mrs. McGregor contained a rough blueprint for an entity that looks like Obi Wan Kenobe. But literally everything that happened next was unpredictable and left some effect on our zygomatic actor.

Every piece of food Mrs. McGregor ate including the exact time she ate it had an effect. Having an uncle who was an actor influenced him, as did every illness and friend he had growing up. Being encouraged to drop out of school at 16 must have hugely impacted Ewan. My parents wouldn't have let me drop out, let alone encouraged me to do so.

He met his wife while filming in Quebec and it's pretty likely that if he hadn't starred in Trainspotting two years later, none of us would ever have heard of him. Incidentally, his uncle was in Star Wars (as Red Leader), which may have helped nudge Lucas towards him for the prequels. Every experience (rooming with Jude Law, Ted Demme's death while in pre-production for Nautic) and everything he's eaten, touched, smelled and heard today have gone into what we now call "Ewan McGregor."

In fact, our very conception of "Ewan McGregor" has also changed over time. We could point to him in 1999, but we wouldn't have remembered him from Moulin Rouge!, which was made two years later.

There is no such thing as a person. A person is not a thing. It is a set of processes generally taking place within a certain area. For that matter, it's also about three pounds of symbiotic species working together for mutual benefit.

Stop thinking of the self/soul/person as an object. It is a process created by the interaction of objects.

Also, he loves motorcycles.
 
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