Proof of God

[Foster Zygote]

Morality can be innate but social mores influence our behaviour. Social mores are always changing but that's what different about God and the Bible. The Ten Commandments will always remain the same. Social mores are trendy. The Ten Commandments obviously are not. We should be grateful that something stays the same.

Which ten commandments?

Exodus 20

1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.
2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not kill.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

Exodus 34

1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.
4. All the first-born are mine.
5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.
6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.
8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.
9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

The Bible also lays out the required punishment for those who break some of these commandments

Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Leviticus 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 21:15 He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

Exodus 21:17 He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Not only have the Ten Commandments changed, but I see little morality contained within them. In fact, the only ones I wouldn't chuck into the dustbin would be 6, 8, and 9 from Exodus 20. These are the only three that are worthy of being written into contemporary law. They are in contemporary law. But many societies with no basis in Abrahamic tradition and no connection to the Ten Commandments have laws prohibiting murder, theft and defamation. And oddly enough, the commandments of Exodus 20 are the ones Moses smashed. Exodus 34 lists the replacement commandments (claiming them to be the same words, which they clearly are not) so this second set is really the "official" set of God's commandments. Should we really base our modern society on them?

 

[Belz...]

Morality can be innate but social mores influence our behaviour. Social mores are always changing but that's what different about God and the Bible. The Ten Commandments will always remain the same. Social mores are trendy. The Ten Commandments obviously are not. We should be grateful that something stays the same.

What do the ten commandments have to do with real laws ?

And don't you find it odd that Jesus doesn't mention the same ten commandments as those mentioned in Exodus ?

 

[Hardenbergh]

What do the ten commandments have to do with real laws ?

Think of it as a soup starter for chicken noodle soup.

And don't you find it odd that Jesus doesn't mention the same ten commandments as those mentioned in Exodus ?

How do God's Ten Commandments apply today?

Many people today feel that God's Ten Commandments are no longer valid because they do not apply to our current society. They look to the Ten Commandments as being outdated and full of inflammatory language which doesn't sit well with our politically-correct viewpoint. The Ten Commandments are also considered by many people to have been abolished by Jesus when He made a new covenant between God and man with His death and resurrection.

The problem in thinking that Jesus came to abolish the Ten Commandments is that Jesus never claimed to have abolished the Ten Commandments. Instead, in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus says, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

In this verse, Jesus gives a clear indication that the Ten Commandments are still to be followed and adhered to even in our generation and every generation to come until the day that Jesus returns. So what does all this mean to us and how do God's Ten Commandments apply today?

God's Ten Commandments are still valid because Jesus declared them to be. We are still called by God to honor the Ten Commandments and obey what they call us to do. Jesus also told us that obeying the Law or the Ten Commandments is not just a superficial act, but one that carries the essence of the law into our thoughts and hearts.

http://www.allabouttruth.org/gods-ten-commandments-faq.htm

 

[thaiboxerken]

Think of it as a soup starter for chicken noodle soup.

Can you illustrate this analogy? Right now, it doesn't make any sense to me. I suspect it won't after you explain it either, but I could be wrong.

God's Ten Commandments are still valid because Jesus declared them to be.

Actually, according to Jesus, all of the laws in the OT are still valid, including the ones about eating shellfish and killing homosexuals. Do you agree with Jesus?

Also, why should anyone that isn't a christian give a rat's butt about what Jesus said?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Think of it as a soup starter for chicken noodle soup.

In this verse, Jesus gives a clear indication that the Ten Commandments are still to be followed and adhered to even in our generation and every generation to come until the day that Jesus returns. So what does all this mean to us and how do God's Ten Commandments apply today?

http://www.allabouttruth.org/gods-ten-commandments-faq.htm

So we should put to death anyone who works on the Sabbath?

 

[Belz...]

Think of it as a soup starter for chicken noodle soup.

What the hell are you talking about ?

As for Jesus, I didn't say he abolished the commandments. You didn't read my post. I said he didn't mention the SAME commandments. How do you explain that ?

Many people today feel that God's Ten Commandments are no longer valid because they do not apply to our current society

I think that they are no longer valid because God does not exist.

 

[Hardenbergh]

As for Jesus, I didn't say he abolished the commandments. You didn't read my post. I said he didn't mention the SAME commandments. How do you explain that ?

You were referring to the commandments in this passage about loving God and your neighbor?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 22: 37-39;&version=9;

Some theorize that the Ten Commandments are the Father's, while Christ's commandments are just two, totally unrelated to the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament. A careful study of the Ten Commandments however, reveals that the first four deal with our love toward God, while the last six deal with our relationship to our neighbor. This is why Jesus said, "On these two commandments hang all the law". The Father's commandments and Christ's commandments are one and the same!

http://www.benabraham.com/html/what_about_god_s_law_.html

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 22: 40;&version=9;

 

[Foster Zygote]

Excuse me Hardenbergh, should we put to death anyone who works on the Sabbath?

 

[Hardenbergh]

Excuse me Hardenbergh, should we put to death anyone who works on the Sabbath?

Where does it say that?

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. ~ Exodus 20: 8-11

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20: 8-11;&version=9;

 

[Belz...]

You were referring to the commandments in this passage about loving God and your neighbor?

I was asking you why Jesus doesn't mention the same commandments as in Exodus. That should be fairly easy for you to answer.

Where does it say that?

Leviticus if memory serves. But then leave it to true believers to be ignorant of the very book they claim provides divine inspiration.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Hardenbergh, why do you ignore the punishment portions of the OT? Why do you ignore the other laws that aren't the 10 commandments? Why should non-christians care about what your bible says?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Where does it say that?





http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus 20: 8-11;&version=9;

Exodus 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

So again, should we put to death those who work on the Sabbath?

 

[Paulhoff]

Exodus
{21:7} And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
{21:8} If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself,
then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

A lot of good old morality in that bible.

Paul

 

[BillyJoe]

Nope.

 

[Hardenbergh]

Exodus 31:15 Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

So again, should we put to death those who work on the Sabbath?

I'll refer you to some verses of scripture in the New Testament if you wish to take time to read them:

Luke 13: 10-17

Luke 14: 1-6

Matthew 12: 1-8

Mark 2: 23-28

Also, this link will answer some questions. It references the same Bible passages with comments. Some of the comments may reflect the doctrine of the church that is represented at the website but it seems to be fairly accurate.

http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/otl/otl11.htm

 

[volatile]

I'll refer you to some verses of scripture in the New Testament if you wish to take time to read them:

Luke 13: 10-17
Luke 14: 1-6
Matthew 12: 1-8
Mark 2: 23-28

Also, this link will answer some questions. It references the same Bible passages with comments. Some of the comments may reflect the doctrine of the church that is represented at the website but it seems to be fairly accurate.

http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/otl/otl11.htm

I note you didn't answer the question. Do you think that we should put those who work on the Sabbath do death? If not, why should be ignore that verse but not the Commandments, which appear in the very same book of the bible?

Your own words would be preferable to a proletysing bible-verse hit and run.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You don't get it, do you, Volatile. Jesus said he came to uphold the laws of the OT, unless Hardenbergh doesn't like a particular law, at which point Jesus denounced it. It's all in how you "translate" it.

 

[volatile]

You don't get it, do you, Volatile. Jesus said he came to uphold the laws of the OT, unless Hardenbergh doesn't like a particular law, at which point Jesus denounced it. It's all in how you "translate" it.

Obviously...

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's very hard to convince a Christian that the morality they say comes from the Bible actually comes from elsewhere and they simply use the bible to support it.

 

[Mobyseven]

I suppose someone could say the same thing about the death penalty. I think there would be a lot more murders without it although I'm not personally in favor of the death penalty.

This is the same statement with the "death penalty" in its place:

"I would be appalled to think that the only thing keeping you from remorselessly killing someone was simply your fear of the death penalty."

Hi, Hardenbergh - we haven't met yet. I'm from a little island in the south pacific, gosh, I don't know if you've heard of us - 'Australia'?

Yeah, turns out we don't have the death penalty here, and we also don't have a higher murder rate than you.

Well, I must be off - a kangaroo's gotten out, and it's trained to attack heathens.

Mobyseven