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Proof of God

I was just reading a sermon titled "Letting Go of Legalism" and the verse from Exodus regarding working on the Sabbath is used as an example. Scroll down to the heading, "How to Recognize Legalism."

Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days shall you labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work...(Exodus 20:8-9)

http://www.bethelstpaul.org/sermon.html

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 12: 1-21;&version=9;
 
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If there is in existence any singular entity or occurrence that I find myself completely enamoured of it is to witness someone utilise convoluted grammatical structure and words of voluminous length in an attempt at coruscation and subsequently confuse a pronoun having the quality of possessiveness with it's homophone.
I enjoyed that too, as well as the "genuflections worship" in the following paragraph, and the "bare with me" which followed that.

I have to confess that my eyes glazed over soon after that, as I watched the soporific screed scroll silently by.

I just tried to use words that would convey the most meaning and be most easily understood by a majority of readers.
Whoosh.

I doubt that I'll ever find the time to consider this blather. I'll check out the last page, and see where it's all led, but honestly...
 
You're not to eat pork or ham you know.

Paul

:) :) :)

And no cheeseburger either.
 
I had Alaskan Roll (salmon and avacado) and Shrimp and Vegetable Tempura for lunch from the Sakura Japanese Cuisine Restaurant.
 
As figured, you pick and choose which of the biblical laws you want to believe are relevant. That's ok, Hardy, we know that all Christians do this because secularism has watered down their religion, thank gawd.
 
I hope for your sake that you've never worked on the sabbath!

I usually spend Sunday having dinner with my parents and doing the dishes. I also do laundry on either Saturday or Sunday. Am I safe? I don't get paid for doing the dishes or the laundry.
 
Doing laundry and dishes is work, if you don't think so, feel free to tell housewives that it's not.
 
Doing laundry and dishes is work, if you don't think so, feel free to tell housewives that it's not.

That could be taken as a sexist remark but I'll let it go. You at least acknowledge that laundry and dishes are work so I'll give you credit. Women still seem to do the bulk of the housework. Many men act like they're still living in the 50's while pretending that women aren't out in the workplace.
 
I usually spend Sunday having dinner with my parents and doing the dishes. I also do laundry on either Saturday or Sunday. Am I safe? I don't get paid for doing the dishes or the laundry.

Of course you are safe. You are safe because the Ten Commandments are an archaic set of laws from a Bronze Age society that have little to no relevance to today's world. The idea of posting the Ten Commandments in public buildings is just silly unless one thinks we should start prosecuting people for cooking a goat in it's mothers milk or mowing their lawns on the Sabbath.
 
That could be taken as a sexist remark but I'll let it go. You at least acknowledge that laundry and dishes are work so I'll give you credit. Women still seem to do the bulk of the housework. Many men act like they're still living in the 50's while pretending that women aren't out in the workplace.

Can we stick to the subject?
 
Of course you are safe. You are safe because the Ten Commandments are an archaic set of laws from a Bronze Age society that have little to no relevance to today's world. The idea of posting the Ten Commandments in public buildings is just silly unless one thinks we should start prosecuting people for cooking a goat in it's mothers milk or mowing their lawns on the Sabbath.

You don't think any of the Ten Commandments have any relevance to today's world? I don't think the display of the Ten Commandments would be harmful to anyone. For one thing, they'd have to purposefully walk up to the display to get close enough to read them (depending how large the print). Just keeping them as part of our history and heritage is reason enough to leave them alone.

Have you ever heard Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ)?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_March_2/ai_n11838232
 
You don't think any of the Ten Commandments have any relevance to today's world? I don't think the display of the Ten Commandments would be harmful to anyone. For one thing, they'd have to purposefully walk up to the display to get close enough to read them (depending how large the print). Just keeping them as part of our history and heritage is reason enough to leave them alone.

No, the 10 commandments have no relevance in any world. They are laws passed down from an imagined being to a fictional character. That, and they are rather stupid. The display of the 10 commandments might not be harmful to anyone, but neither would the display of wiccan reid.

The 10 commandments are not part of my heritage, and I'm an american citizen born and raised. They are part of USA history, sure, but so is slaver.

Have you ever heard Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ)?
The ACLJ is an organization founded by Pat Robertson with the purpose of opposing secularism and tearing down the wall of seperation between christianity and the government to better christian interests. They are scum.

They say that the 10 commandments have played a vital role in the USA law, and maybe they did. But did they play a positive role?! I think not.
 
No, the 10 commandments have no relevance in any world. They are laws passed down from an imagined being to a fictional character. That, and they are rather stupid. The display of the 10 commandments might not be harmful to anyone, but neither would the display of wiccan reid.

Not fictional to everyone.

The 10 commandments are not part of my heritage, and I'm an american citizen born and raised. They are part of USA history, sure, but so is slaver.

I don't think that the Ten Commandments and slavery are on the same level.

The ACLJ is an organization founded by Pat Robertson with the purpose of opposing secularism and tearing down the wall of seperation between christianity and the government to better christian interests. They are scum.

They say that the 10 commandments have played a vital role in the USA law, and maybe they did. But did they play a positive role?! I think not.

Scum? I've heard the same disparaging remarks about the ACLU.
 
Not fictional to everyone.

Yes, to everyone, regardless of if they believe it to be so or not.

I don't think that the Ten Commandments and slavery are on the same level.

I think they are. Both played a role in USA history, but the negative contributions far outweigh the positives.

Scum? I've heard the same disparaging remarks about the ACLU.

Really? The ACLU was founded by a fundamentalist christian who wants to tear down the wall of seperation between christianity and government?
 
An article from the ACLJ website titled, A Patriotic Right to Say 'God' in the Classroom?

Sekulow holds that it is "hardly likely" that patriotic expressions that include reference to God present a threat to the separation of church and state "greater than the study and performance of religious songs and hymns associated with Christmas (or other) observances."

http://www.aclj.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=305

Here are a couple more articles by Jay Sekulow:


It's often talked about, Thomas Jefferson's famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Connecticut Association, where he talked about what he called the "high and mighty duty in this wall of separation between church and state." There's something else that Jefferson wrote several years before he wrote that famous letter to the Danbury Baptists, and that was during the debates on the First Amendment and also in discussions with friends about the concept of liberty. He wrote, "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that the liberties are a gift of God and that they are not violated but with His wrath?"

Now, Thomas Jefferson, in the classic understanding of his religious belief, would not fall within what most people would consider an orthodox Christian position. In my view of history anyway, I would not consider him to be – and I'm not speaking as a theologian— He had various views on religion and faith. I don't think faith was insignificant in his life, I don't mean to suggest that at all, but it wouldn't be what we would typically talk about today as a Protestant form of Christianity or Catholic form of Christianity. He kind of had his view of faith, Christianity, and the deity of Jesus, and that's a whole different topic.

But he recognized something very fundamental in that our rights don't come from a king; they are endowed to us. So if the requirement of the school district in Elk Grove was that we begin each school day by reminding ourselves, as students, that we should remember the history of this great nation, that we are endowed by our Creator with these rights, they're inalienable, and that the Creator bestowed them upon us – life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness – I submit that many people, Dr. Newdow included, would object, saying again it's this compelled reliance.

http://www.aclj.org/Cases/Resources/Document.aspx?id=1075

And you think that the ACLJ is scum?

The ACLU is at it again. With an outrageous boldness that only they could muster, the ACLU has once again set their sights on Christmas celebrations. In their never-ending quest to completely eradicate all things religious from public life, the ACLU’s latest lawsuit is an all-out frontal attack on the freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion. Let me ask you—when did a children’s Christmas program become “an illegal activity”? When did the nativity story and Christmas songs become unconstitutional? This is the outrageous and dangerous charge the ACLU has leveled against a school district in Tennessee. A children’s Christmas program has been deemed to be an “illegal act” because of the ACLU.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/JaySekulow/2006/11/28/the_aclu_targets_christians&Comments=true
 
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Of course Sekulow would have such an opinion, he's a fundamentalist christian. I am thinking he'd not hold the same opinion if such expressions referenced Allah though. Appealing to the ACLJ as an authority is rather silly, especially since it is a well known fact that the ACLJ fights for christianity to be the single, most influential religion in the government and to tear down the wall of seperation. It was created by Pat Robertson!
 
You don't think any of the Ten Commandments have any relevance to today's world?
As I stated earlier, there are three from the first set of laws that are relevant. They are the ones prohibiting murder, theft and defamation. But these prohibitions are common to most societies.

I don't think the display of the Ten Commandments would be harmful to anyone.
I do. What if a Hindu citizen has to make use of the courts and walks into the lobby to see "Thou shall have no other gods before me? How does a display of the Ten Commandments respect this person's rights?

For one thing, they'd have to purposefully walk up to the display to get close enough to read them (depending how large the print).
What does this have to do with anything?

Just keeping them as part of our history and heritage is reason enough to leave them alone.
Then lets display them along with other historical legal codes like the Codex Hammurabi, the Great Qing Legal Code and the Magna Carta.

Have you ever heard Jay Sekulow, Chief Counsel of the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ)?
Yes I have. I find him to be a highly biased activist determined to erode the separation of church and state and establish Christianity as a dominant force in government policy.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2005_March_2/ai_n11838232[/QUOTE]
 
1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.
What does that have to do with any laws.
2. You shall not make for yourself a graven image. You shall not bow down to them or serve them.
What does that have to do with any laws.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
What does that have to do with any laws.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
What does that have to do with any laws.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
What does that have to do with any laws.
6. You shall not kill.
Finally something to do with a law.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
Good in theory.
8. You shall not steal.
Sounds good.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Well there goes gosip, yea we know this one is followed real well.
10. You shall not covet.
Well there goes free enterprise.

So out of 10 only 4 have any meaning when it comes to law, not a good average.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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I usually spend Sunday having dinner with my parents and doing the dishes.

Who said anything about Sunday ? We're talking about the Sabbath, here. Unless you contend that the Christian Sabbath is somehow different from the Jewish one in God's eyes.

I also do laundry on either Saturday or Sunday. Am I safe? I don't get paid for doing the dishes or the laundry.

You are not to do ANY work on the Sabbath, period. Penalty: death.

You don't think any of the Ten Commandments have any relevance to today's world?

Nope.

I don't think the display of the Ten Commandments would be harmful to anyone.

As long as the commendments of ALL other religions are also on display, fine.

Not fictional to everyone.

Actually, yes.
 

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