Split Thread Pronouns

[Brainster]

Note that nonbinary and genderfluid are actually subsets of transgender. Not all transgender are nonbinary, but all nonbinary people can accurately be described as transgender. Transgender simply means "not of the gender assigned to them at birth".

Nobody is "assigned" a gender at birth, their sex is observed, probably 99.99% of the time correctly. Why would the doctor make an assumption about gender?

 

[Thermal]

Nobody is "assigned" a gender at birth, their sex is observed, probably 99.99% of the time correctly. Why would the doctor make an assumption about gender?

My birth certificate doesn't say 'man'. It says male. And it is factually correct by any standard, not a placeholder or other kind of assignment.

 

[arthwollipot]

Pronouns in Western languages are only used when talking about someone, never when talking TO someone.

You can talk about someone in their presence. For example, we are now talking about Emily's Cat. She can read what we are saying.

I think that's a pretty good sampling.

Yes, thank you for spending a great deal of your valuable time on that. It's good to know how far you will go to win a stupid internet argument. I at least have the excuse that right now I genuinely have no better use for my time. I wonder what you could have been doing instead.

Anyway, you'll notice that for the most part I was saying that you were being rude, which is not an insult, that the arguments were transphobic, not that you were a transphobe, and a little bit of random swearing because ◊◊◊◊ me did someone notice that I'm Australian.

I find these discussions extremely frustrating, and my veneer slips and I lash out occasionally. Sue me.

That's where your implied superiority comes into play. You expect that I will set aside my beliefs because you ask me to.

I don't expect that at all. You've been very clear about this. I have absolutely no expectations whatsoever that anything I say or do will change you. Nor you me. That's not why we're here.

 

[Emily's Cat]

u can talk about someone in their presence. For example, we are now talking about Emily's Cat. She can read what we are saying.

I see you’re misgendering me again… how very rude of you.

 

[arthwollipot]

I see you’re misgendering me again… how very rude of you.

My apologies. I thought you had stated earlier in the thread that you are female. What pronouns would you like me to use?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Anyway, you'll notice that for the most part I was saying that you were being rude, which is not an insult, that the arguments were transphobic, not that you were a transphobe, and a little bit of random swearing because ◊◊◊◊ me did someone notice that I'm Australian.

Ah, right, so now you get an excuse for hypocrisy on account of your country. How convenient

My apologies. I thought you had stated earlier in the thread that you are female. What pronouns would you like me to use?

She's already said multiple times that she'd prefer gender neutral. So, I'm guessing maybe "they/them"? Maybe I'd go for "it" to take the piss? I won't care about that myself, of course, but I'm a self confessed bastard (clue is in the name) and proud of it. Kinda like Dennis Leary's song, but I won't write that particular word, since the mods don't like it. It's not because I was born on Germania, it's all me.

 

[arthwollipot]

Ah, right, so now you get an excuse for hypocrisy on account of your country. How convenient

No, I get an excuse for ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ swearing because I'm Australian. Can't you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ read?

 

[Ziggurat]

Anyway, you'll notice that for the most part I was saying that you were being rude, which is not an insult, that the arguments were transphobic, not that you were a transphobe, and a little bit of random swearing because ◊◊◊◊ me did someone notice that I'm Australian.

This isn't really about insults. "He" and "she" are not insults.

You want people to use a person's preferred pronouns because they don't like it if someone uses the "wrong" pronouns. You are prioritizing their response to the language used. But you aren't applying that standard uniformly. You are using language that causes offense to EC. You may justify that by saying your claims are true, but that doesn't prevent offense. Moreover, sex-based pronouns are also true, you aren't objecting to them on the basis that they falsely describe someone's sex.

I find these discussions extremely frustrating, and my veneer slips and I lash out occasionally. Sue me.

And now you are making excuses for causing offense. Fair enough. But then you have to accept other people's excuses for causing offense.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

No, I get an excuse for ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ swearing because I'm Australian. Can't you ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ read?

Convenient. But you still preached obeying someone's preferred pronouns for 13 pages straight just in this thread (and a few dozen others in other threads,) while completely ignoring hers. Yeah, that's the definition of hypocrisy. At least I'm not pretending to care about anyone's preferences, including hers, but you flail around preaching one thing and condemning those who do the other, while doing the other yourself. Yep, looks like the very definition of virtue signalling to me, if I ever saw any example.

Based on precisely being able to read what you write.

 

[arthwollipot]

Did you also just misgender Emily's Cat? I'm confused now.

 

[Ziggurat]

Did you also just misgender Emily's Cat? I'm confused now.

Yes, he misgendered her. He explained why:

At least I'm not pretending to care about anyone's preferences, including hers, but you flail around preaching one thing and condemning those who do the other, while doing the other yourself.

Did you not understand this?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Did you also just misgender Emily's Cat? I'm confused now.

Yes, I did. Intentionally. But I don't claim to be "progressive", nor to support other people's pronouns. I practice exactly what I preach, and if anyone thinks I'm a bastard, well, clue is in the name; glad they noticed. You practice the opposite of what you've spent years preaching.

You can join and confess that you're as big a bastard as I am (tall order)... or not. I can't stop you from being a hypocrite. BUT... one or the other. You don't get to pose as supporting one thing for virtue points while consistently doing the opposite, and think nobody notices.

 

[The Atheist]

If it comes with the implication that failing to honor the request makes the other person bad or an ass, then it's not a polite request - it's a threat of ostracism, and it's attempted coercion.

Utter bollocks.

If someone makes a simple, polite request, it carries no threat at all.

It's the other person's response that makes them* an arsehole.

*singular

 

[Thermal]

I see you’re misgendering me again… how very rude of you.

Now I'm confused. If you say for multiple years that you reject gender bendering, and pronouns correspond to sex, and you stress that you are a human female, then how can calling you 'she' be anything but appropriate?

 

[Ziggurat]

Now I'm confused. If you say for multiple years that you reject gender bendering, and pronouns correspond to sex, and you stress that you are a human female, then how can calling you 'she' be anything but appropriate?

Because it's not what she wants.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Now I'm confused. If you say for multiple years that you reject gender bendering, and pronouns correspond to sex, and you stress that you are a human female, then how can calling you 'she' be anything but appropriate?

For once I fully agree with you. Let's not make a habit of it

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Because it's not what she wants.

In all fairness, I made it clear a decade ago that I don't give a flip about what she wants. And not just about pronouns. The ones that irk me are the ones pretending to care deeply and be deeply offended by those who don't, while actually caring even less than I do.

 

[Ziggurat]

In all fairness, I made it clear a decade ago that I don't give a flip about what she wants.

Oh, I'm not saying you have to.

But that's the entire justification for using anyone's preferred pronouns: it's what they want.

 

[Thermal]

Because it's not what she wants.

... then it's still not misgendering, since it corresponds to her gender.

She might say that she prefers pronouns that don't match her gender, but that's not misgendering. And I don't recall her saying, despite multiple posts, that she preferred anything else?

 

[Ziggurat]

... then it's still not misgendering, since it corresponds to her gender.

You didn't ask if it was misgendering. You asked "how can calling [EC] 'she' be anything but appropriate?" And I told you how. It's the same reason that misgendering can be inappropriate: it's not what the person wants.