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Promises from Iran

McHrozni said:
Yes, and this means they don't deplore brutality of a regime, they mere deplore who it's targets are.
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Either that or they genuinely support the regime and the means that are used to maintain order.

McHrozni said:
Iranian current regime openly condones and commits acts of horrific torture for no good reason. It violates the most basic human rights on a large scale. Shah certainly had his own share of faults, but he was deposed because he didn't pick only on the vulnerable in the society.
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I'm sure that the reasons for the Shah being deposed were a little more complicated than that.

McHrozni said:
There is a word for that - hypocrisy. It also clearly demonstrates any Iranian animosity towards the US is clearly manufactured for internal political gain.
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According to you. The U.S. supported the previous regime and supported Iraq against Iran in a war that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. The U.S. is a staunch supporter of Saudi Arabia who are not only vying for regional supremacy with Iran but also represent a religious ideology which Iran is against.

Under those circumstances I can understand why Iran has a beef with the U.S.

McHrozni said:
Without a foreign enemy like the US, the revolution would quickly begin to devour itself, after all. It's like in 1984, really.
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Your opinion, the regime seems reasonably stable though.

McHrozni said:
Iran also has a bone to pick with Israel. A country that doesn't border any country that borders on Iran, has previously attacked Iran's enemies and that has no reason to strike Iran at all ... other unprovoked hostility of Iran. Any idea as to why that is? I contend it's a mixture of antisemitism and manufacturing enemies as described above. Do you have another option maybe?

McHrozni
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Yes, Iran wants to me a major power in the region. the US and isreal are in theway
 
The Don said:
Either that or they genuinely support the regime and the means that are used to maintain order.
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Which is exactly what I said. They don't actually mind brutality, they only find the brutality of pro-US regime a convenient excuse.

I'm sure that the reasons for the Shah being deposed were a little more complicated than that.
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No doubt, but the brutality of the Shah regime was being used as a reason for Iranian animosity towards the US. I don't recall you putting forward any other reasons regarding the Shah. Since Iranian regime is now also quite brutal - possibly even more so than Shah - the brutality itself had nothing to do with the said animosity.

According to you. The U.S. supported the previous regime and supported Iraq against Iran in a war that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives. The U.S. is a staunch supporter of Saudi Arabia who are not only vying for regional supremacy with Iran but also represent a religious ideology which Iran is against.
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Funnily enough, US supported Iraq against Iran solely due to Iranian hostility towards the US, and only to a point where Iran couldn't defeat Iraq. With proper US support (and no US support for Iran), Iraq would win that war. Without Iranian hostility to the US, US most likely wouldn't support Iraq. You can't invade embassies and hold diplomats hostage and expect no response against you. Iranians forget all of that for no good reason.

Your opinion, the regime seems reasonably stable though.
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In part due to having foreign enemies.

Yes, Iran wants to me a major power in the region. the US and isreal are in theway
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US certainly is in the way, but this puts the argument on it's head. Iran is hostile towards the US because it can't fulfill it's imperial ambitions due to US alliances with smaller states in the region. This is extremely far from having a legitimate reason to have a beef with the US - in other words, the animosity is manufactured by Iran for it's own purposes and not a result of any undue actions by the US.

Furthermore, how exactly is Israel in the way? For Israel to be in the way, Iran would have to overrun at least two other countries first.

McHrozni
 
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Peter May said:
'

I don't give a xxxx what you think, am I perfectly clear!.
What you say is false, prove I am wrong!
The only way you can do that is to contact the BBC 24 hours News channel and confirm what I
say is true.
Waiting for your apology......
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Obama said "**** Peter May". Prove me wrong. I read it somewhere on the internet. Find it yourself.
 
Belz... said:
Obama said "**** Peter May". Prove me wrong. I read it somewhere on the internet. Find it yourself.
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Citation required!

Iran seeks nuclear weapons because her hated enemy Israel might attack Iran at any time, and if you think Israel cares much for repercussions think again.
There are lot's of great newspapers most of them European where you can fill in the gaps.
If my neighbour keeps threatening to kill not only my family but my race, then I'm considerate
of Israels fears.
Quite frankly, I don't give a **** for all the failed middle east states, give me a few more Israels.

http://www.habonim.com/

A company getting on with the job of making a living for Israel.
I used to sell their products in all the Nordic countries.
 
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Reuters: "Solutions have been obtained and it seems that the principles and red lines of the Islamic Republic in technical issues have been accepted by the enemy," said Mohammad Ali Jafari, the commander of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), according to Fars News.
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Note how this is a treaty with 'enemies' and is being handled under Islamic principles, as per recent comments by the Supreme BigDude. The more this is stressed by the Iranians, the clearer that the rest of Islamic thinking applies, such as signing treaties when weaker to stave off the enemy, with full intent of renewing hostilities once disadvantage has been eliminated. Quite literally compliant with the "prophet's" Medina warlord instructions.

Hard to deal with Islam when it explicitly condones such duplicity as a core tenet.
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Hard to deal with Islam when it explicitly condones such duplicity as a core tenet.
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Only one country in the world has been duplicitous enough to negotiate with their enemy while at the same time carrying out a secret plan to drop nuclear bombs on them. That same country enjoys invading Eastern countries and killing thousands of innocent civilians to install 'democracy' - talks about human rights while torturing Muslims in contravention of its own laws - and shoots its own citizens to death while telling them to stop complaining and “Shut the **** up!”.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited for rule 10. Do not attempt to bypass the autocensor by using replacement characters; type the word out in full and allow the autocensor to deal with curse words.


It's hard to deal with a nation which condones such duplicity as a core tenet, but then what do you expect from a people whose Bible contains this gem from their so-called 'Prince of Peace':-

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - Jesus H. Christ
 
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McHrozni said:
Yes, and this means they don't deplore brutality of a regime, they mere deplore who it's targets are.

Iranian current regime openly condones and commits acts of horrific torture for no good reason. It violates the most basic human rights on a large scale. Shah certainly had his own share of faults, but he was deposed because he didn't pick only on the vulnerable in the society.

There is a word for that - hypocrisy. It also clearly demonstrates any Iranian animosity towards the US is clearly manufactured for internal political gain.
Without a foreign enemy like the US, the revolution would quickly begin to devour itself, after all. It's like in 1984, really.

Iran also has a bone to pick with Israel. A country that doesn't border any country that borders on Iran, has previously attacked Iran's enemies and that has no reason to strike Iran at all ... other unprovoked hostility of Iran. Any idea as to why that is? I contend it's a mixture of antisemitism and manufacturing enemies as described above. Do you have another option maybe?

McHrozni
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It's undoubtedly true that the mullahs in Tehran are running a nasty gov't, with the usual tactics of domestic repression and foreign scapegoats. But the same is even more true for Saudi Arabia, America's bestest friend and ally.

Now America is providing military support to protect al Qaeda from Iran, because that's what America's bestest friend and ally has requested.

I don't think it's worth it. I think America should stand back and let the Iranians crush the House of Saud and turn the Arabian Peninsula into a permanent war zone.

Back in the days of the Belgian Congo, imperial overlords paid a bounty on human hands. It didn't matter whose hands they were. People would show up with bushel baskets full of human hands to get their money. Maybe that would be cheaper than drones and cruise missiles, eh?
 
Hlafordlaes said:
Hear, hear! (+Me likee.)
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You do realize that Israel is a failed ME state, don't you? The only reason it has survived is because we keep pouring US wealth and armaments into their failed economy to protect them from the consequences of their failed economic and diplomatic boondoggles.
 
Trakar said:
You do realize that Israel is a failed ME state, don't you? The only reason it has survived is because we keep pouring US wealth and armaments into their failed economy to protect them from the consequences of their failed economic and diplomatic boondoggles.
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What a load of BS. Israel survived for decades with little US aid, ad US aid to this day are a small part of its economy and military.

Israel's economy is far better than all of their neighbors, many of which are truly failed states despite the ive amounts of international aid pouring in.
 
;)

American taxpayers have paid the equivalent of $234 billion at today's values in aid to Israel since 1948. The figures are revealed in a report by Israeli economic magazine The Marker this week [May 2013] and show the actual amount of $113 billion adjusted to take inflation into account. The pro-Israel Lobby in the US is pushing hard for aid to the country to be maintained despite the economic hardships facing the American people.

US aid accounts for about 4 per cent of Israel's GDP, claims the Haaretz-owned magazine. An additional $19 billion of financial guarantees have also been forthcoming from the US to help Israel to get loans from around the world.
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newyorkguy said:
;)
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Do you think you somehow refuted what I said?

It's funny you had to add up nearly 70 year's worth of aid, and then adjust for current values, in order to generate a number that sounds impressive.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
Only one country in the world has been duplicitous enough to negotiate with their enemy while at the same time carrying out a secret plan to drop nuclear bombs on them. That same country enjoys invading Eastern countries and killing thousands of innocent civilians to install 'democracy' - talks about human rights while torturing Muslims in contravention of its own laws - and shoots its own citizens to death while telling them to stop complaining and “Shut the **** up!”.
Edited by Agatha: 
Edited for rule 10. Do not attempt to bypass the autocensor by using replacement characters; type the word out in full and allow the autocensor to deal with curse words.


It's hard to deal with a nation which condones such duplicity as a core tenet, but then what do you expect from a people whose Bible contains this gem from their so-called 'Prince of Peace':-

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - Jesus H. Christ
Click to expand...

SO EDGY I CUT ROCKS! There's this little thing called "Nuance" about complexities of international affairs (more specifically, American handling of the British Empire's legacy in the Middle East) or internal mechanisms of various societies (The American South Post Jim Crow), and let's be honest, a Marxist Academic would consider this sort of juvenile edginess beneath them.
 
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WildCat said:
What a load of BS. Israel survived for decades with little US aid, ad US aid to this day are a small part of its economy and military.

Israel's economy is far better than all of their neighbors, many of which are truly failed states despite the ive amounts of international aid pouring in.
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How much "economic aid" has the U.S. Security Council veto been worth? It has been used to thwart (as opposed to making them fair and equitable) U.N. sanctions, border control, peace-keeping forces, and most of the rest of the globe from resolving the problems resulting from the behaviors of all parties involved in the ME.

Tight relationships with Israel during the cold war, made sense as a counterbalance to all the Soviet-friendly allies in Africa and the ME. Now, while I would work with the security council and the world court members to insure that fair and balanced proceedings and rulings/consequences are enforced, that is about the extent of my concern or consideration for the nation of Israel.
 
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