Project ROSE Is Arresting Sex Workers in Arizona to Save Their Souls

[quadraginta]

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[1] technically, the police can question you in such a situation, but none of your answers can be used in a court of law. You cannot be convicted on any answers you give under these circumstances.

How sure are you of this?

I have the impression that not only can they use what you say against you, but that they often interview people they are suspicious of under other pretexts (e.g. as a witness or for "background information") specifically for the purpose of getting statements when the person's guard is down.

Isn't that why attorneys (and most cops) recommend that you never say anything to the police?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'm going to get on the horn and ask a few questions - I've got friends in AZ LEA's and when the linked article got to the part about "two years" for offering oral for $20.00 my eyebrows jumped off my head.

She's price fixing and undercutting the market. Hurting business.

 

[Katdai]

How sure are you of this?

I have the impression that not only can they use what you say against you, but that they often interview people they are suspicious of under other pretexts (e.g. as a witness or for "background information") specifically for the purpose of getting statements when the person's guard is down.

Isn't that why attorneys (and most cops) recommend that you never say anything to the police?

Yes and no. If you freely offer information, it can be used against you. The problem is "freely offer" is quite a grey area and readily argued by a defense attorney, so most cops err on the side of Mirandizing sooner rather than later. In this situation, it is widely held that being detained (ie handcuffed if not arrested) means you are no longer "freely offering" jack. Of course, those magic words, "I'd like to speak with my lawyer" make the situation abundantly clear.

 

[Kopji]

There's a couple of conclusions that I question.

1. The assumption that the US prostitution laws are motivated by religion and we live in some kind of technological Victorian era.

Prostitution is a form of violence against women (to save a lot of abusive posts, consider that I would take that statement as an 80/20 rule and yes some people find it empowering and some prostitutes are men, etc etc.).

To that reasoning it lies somewhere on the same continuum with porn at one end, then prostitution, then finally human trafficking and sexual slavery. It is a male dominated form of violence. US law ties prostitution and trafficking together, and it is this view of prostitution as violence that makes it illegal rather than being accepted as a regular business.

This is a secular view. I know any number of people, men and women who would agree this view:

Prostitution is Violence Against Women
Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centers (CASAC) stands in solidarity with all those who are sexually exploited.

• We believe in a world free from prostitution and all forms of sexual exploitation.
• We declare that the prostitution system is profoundly sexist and racist. It is based on the existing inequalities between men and women, adults and children, rich and poor, between countries of the north and south and racialized inequalities.
• We declare that the root cause of prostitution is the demand for women and children for sexual exploitation that is those men who see it as their unlimitable right to purchase and sexually exploit women and girls.
• We declare that prostitution is usually the consequence of women living in economic and affective misery, as well as different forms of sexual violence and social and political inequalities. It is linked to the sexualization of young women and girls. It is therefore not a "choice" of work or a "right" to dispose of one’s body as one wishes.
• We believe that sexually exploited women are drawn into a prostitution culture by buyers, procurers and traffickers over a period of time due to the violence of men, to poverty, to the terrible cycle of drug addiction, and to the precarious status of immigrants in this country.
• We believe that sexual exploitation based on the commercialization of women’s bodies and is situated on a continuum that includes : pornography, prostitution, all forms of sexual violence (pedophilia), domestic and international sexual trafficking and sexual slavery.
• We believe that the globalization of sexual trafficking feeds the sex industry’s constant demand for "new blood" and "exoticism". It touches the life of millions of people, mostly women and girls from southern countries, Eastern Europe, but also within Canada.
• We denounce the sex industry which in the context of globalization exploits the misery and the vulnerability of the most fragile members of society and those made vulnerable due to war, armed conflicts and economics, social, political and environmental crises.
• We reaffirm that the struggle against all the forms of sexual exploitation is an integral part of the battle for the respect of human rights, sexual equality, and the equality between all peoples.

http://sisyphe.org/spip.php?article2189

And this is not even a remotely religious or American site. Most of it is in French but this area has been translated to English.

2:
The reality is that whatever the Arizona crazy laws say, it is much the same here as in many other places. The jails are not really full of sex workers and police have wide latitude to pretty much do what they want.

I don't really see the root of unfairness in the Arizona laws as violating the women's rights by picking them up and diverting them. The problem is really that we should not be able to threaten them with arrest at all. I would advocate focusing on their clients. That would not be a perfect solution but the programs they are offering the women would be of their own choice and not under duress. I don't see the problem as being with the people trying to do something and work within the law though, it is the law itself that is fundamentally flawed.

Catholic Charities is a separate organization from the Catholic church. They receive government funding so must abide by secular laws. I suspect that there be Catholics in there somewhere. I'm not sure where the opinion came in that this was some kind of program to save their souls. The Churches in the area already deal with many violence issues and see this as just an extension of those programs.

The activist was not arrested, and I seriously doubt would be. Some of the people here are more or less fascists, not stupid. :|

 

[Ladewig]

This is a secular view. I know any number of people, men and women who would agree this view:



And this is not even a remotely religious or American site. Most of it is in French but this area has been |

There is another thread for legality of prostitution. Your post, however applies to both this thread (Project Rose) and the other thread.

Both threads are about adult prostitution, so all the references to children are in the quoted material are rather off topic.

I'll let the Mods decide where to place your post before giving a detailed response about which parts I agree and disagree.

 

[Polaris]

She's price fixing and undercutting the market. Hurting business job creators.

FTFY.

 

[Darth Rotor]

FWIW, a slightly different approach from the Chief of Police in Corpus Christi, TX

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/Ed Board A better solution to prostitution than prosecution.pdf

I'll try to get some more formal documentation from my B-I-L, he works in that PD.

 

[Corsair 115]

So is there perhaps any connection between the church getting money from this and someone in the state government or police department? Might someone be helping out their old church by having had it be selected for this little enterprise?

(More broadly, what the heck is it with Arizona?)

 

[Darth Rotor]

Had a talk with my B-I-L. It's worked out differently since that editorial praising the Chief of Police. Not quite analogous with this Arizona case. The only prostitution calls that the cops typically respond to is neighbors pissed off that hookers are walking the street in their neighborhood. Other than that, most of the patrolmen know who the hookers are and don't go out of their way to bother them. Most of the enforcement work these days is actually in rounding up "Johns" every so often.

Anyway, that's his perspective, but he admits he only knows this second hand, as he's not worked vice in over ten years. It's not that big of a city, and not that big of a police force.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Dupe post. Sorry. Please delete.