Private toll roads gathering speed

[Kerberos]

Maybe it is reality which has been twisting the facts to keep them from fitting a certain political agenda?

Libertarianism is absolute, reality is frequently inaccurate.”

 

[Jocko]

They didn't need to condemn land to build the first (private) transcontinental highway.

How many stars were on the American flag when that route was half-built (other half being redesignated)?

 

[WildCat]

Not sure what to think of this.

For starters, no act of Congress is needed:

Chicago reached a $1.8 billion deal to lease the rights to operate its toll road to a private consortium, a move expected to reduce city maintenance costs and raise money for future users.

The tolls are already being increased.

 

[WildCat]

If it's a case of getting value for your money, count your blessings. IL's toll roads are some of the most congested, poorly maintained highways in the state. But they're the only direct route to most heavily-traveled destnations, so it's not value you get for your money.... it's insult on top of injury.

Plus, you now have to pay DOUBLE tolls unless you use a state-supplied transponder which beams your identity at every toll plaza. There has been a great deal of talk about using these signals to issue speeding tickets if the time between scans doesn't jibe with the distance. They already have your name, address and credit card on file, of course.

Some system, huh?

Don't worry, Jocko. They'll raise the I-Pass tolls soon enough also, just as soon as everybody starts using them. For someone like me, who rarely uses the tollway, it's not worth it to spend $50 on a transponder, plus the balance they require you to pay in advance. Northern IL tollroads are popular downstate, of course. Dowstaters say "why should we pay for your roads?" to which I say fine, let's make all your roads toll roads as well you SOB's. Oh, and the toll plazas are about every 5 miles here, which does a fantastic job of turning them into something better resembling a parking lot instead of a road.

They promise that they won't ever use I-Pass transponders to issue tickets. If you believe that, I'll sell you the stretch of I-294 between the Deerfierld toll plaza and and Half Day Road, real cheap!

 

[shanek]

If you're talking about the Lincoln Highway,

I'm not, but nice diversion from the subject...and I see the other bigots have fallen right in line with you, as usual.

yet another thread destroyed before it had time to flourish...

 

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

My mistake. What road are you referring to then?

 

[shanek]

Oh, and by the way, if you people weren't busy being such bigots, you'd see that the Lincoln Highway proves my point as well. According to MKJ's link, fully half of the Lincoln Highway was built with private funds. That's HALFWAY ACROSS THE FREAKIN' COUNTRY!

And tell me you're not counting the trails laid by the Pony Express, a PRIVATE COMPANY, as government roads. Many of the other routes were privately built, at least initially, as well.

Once again, good work. nice derail. Now you have another sacred cow that is fully protected from the facts...but noooo, let's use it as an excuse to throw insults and personal attacks at Shane. That's soooo much easier than admitting we were wrong...

 

[seayakin]

Oh, and by the way, if you people weren't busy being such bigots, you'd see that the Lincoln Highway proves my point as well. According to MKJ's link, fully half of the Lincoln Highway was built with private funds. That's HALFWAY ACROSS THE FREAKIN' COUNTRY!

And tell me you're not counting the trails laid by the Pony Express, a PRIVATE COMPANY, as government roads. Many of the other routes were privately built, at least initially, as well.

Once again, good work. nice derail. Now you have another sacred cow that is fully protected from the facts...but noooo, let's use it as an excuse to throw insults and personal attacks at Shane. That's soooo much easier than admitting we were wrong...

I'd like to see you raise private funding to purchase the land in today's market for a route like I95 from Boston to DC. I cannot fathom how this could be done with out raising billions of dollars just to buy the land let alone build such a road. However, if you are looking for the Federal government to sell off existing routes and privatize the roads that is a different matter.

 

[Solitaire]

Shanek, think of the photocopiers!

MAYOR TOM WILLIAMS: My conscience was clear. I believe, and the people that supported us do believe that it was the right thing to do for the survival of this city.

BRANCACCIO: 'Survival of a city' is a pretty strong statement, but that's what mayor Tom Williams says is at stake here. Norwood is under financial duress - they're running a three million dollar deficit. That, on an annual budget of only $18 million. It's estimated that the new development could net the city two to three million dollars a year in taxes. The mayor says eminent domain was the tool that could to save them.

MAYOR TOM WILLIAMS: I'll give you an example. Prior to sitting down talking to you, we're about ready to lose our copiers.

DAVID BRANCACCIO: Your photocopiers?

MAYOR TOM WILLIAMS: Yeah. Right now struggling to make payroll. We owe pension fund monies. We're under a fiscal watch in the state of Ohio. So we're struggling just to keep our heads above water. And it's vital for us to do these developments. It's vital for us to get the earnings tax in to operate this city.

P.S. Does anyone want to define the word, bigot?

 

[Rob Lister]

Just as a note with no real anticipation of debate, I think private toll roads are fine so long as the tolls are regulated by elected officials.

hehe.

Monkey wrenches can be fun too. I really want to go off topic with a tale of our own toll road through Va Beach and how some on the city council argued that that should be kept in place, even though they promised to remove them once the construction costs were recouped. Their argument was that the needed the funds for the growing social programs and besides, the toll booths acted as an efficient valve to regulate traffic. Other council members suggested that a stop sign would work just as well. But that's off topic. So I won't go into it.

 

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

Oh, and by the way, if you people weren't busy being such bigots, you'd see that the Lincoln Highway proves my point as well. According to MKJ's link, fully half of the Lincoln Highway was built with private funds. That's HALFWAY ACROSS THE FREAKIN' COUNTRY!

I've looked at both links a couple of times now and don't see where it says that. Quote?

Once again, good work. nice derail. Now you have another sacred cow that is fully protected from the facts...

You didn't say which "first (private) transcontinental highway" you were talking about, so I took a guess. My bad. Now, once again, what road are you referring to?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

That's soooo much easier than admitting we were wrong...

Speaking of admitting you were wrong, do you still stand by the follwing statements you made?

1) All banks are forced at gunpoint to belong to the Federal Reserve

2) Spain had no problems with terrorism until they joined the US coalition in Iraq

Note to skeptics: Shanek will ignore this

 

[Jocko]

Monkey wrenches can be fun too. I really want to go off topic with a tale of our own toll road through Va Beach and how some on the city council argued that that should be kept in place, even though they promised to remove them once the construction costs were recouped. Their argument was that the needed the funds for the growing social programs and besides, the toll booths acted as an efficient valve to regulate traffic. Other council members suggested that a stop sign would work just as well. But that's off topic. So I won't go into it.

That's nothing. The same question arose in IL not long ago about the entire toll system, which apparently had reached break-even as well. They didn't even come up with a mealy-mouthed excuse like traffic regulation. They didn't say anything at all.

All they did was give the legislature authority to dip into its funds so the cash addiction got spread around a little more. It's still semi-autonomous, otherwise.

 

[crimresearch]

I've looked at both links a couple of times now and don't see where it says that. Quote?
You didn't say which "first (private) transcontinental highway" you were talking about, so I took a guess. My bad. Now, once again, what road are you referring to?

Yes, I'd like to know how many 'first transcontinental highways' there were...this should prove another valuable lesson in word twisting, evasion, and name calling for all of us BIGOTS!!!.

 

[richardm]

And tell me you're not counting the trails laid by the Pony Express, a PRIVATE COMPANY, as government roads. Many of the other routes were privately built, at least initially, as well.

How many trails did they actually lay, though?


This site says they mainly used established trails. The exception appears to be:

At Salt Lake City the pony trail departs from the other overland trail routes as it cuts across central Utah, crosses the Great Basin through central Nevada, then follows the Carson River until it scales the Sierra Nevada on its way to Sacramento.

And while you could argue that all routes and trails were originally laid out by private individuals going about their journeys, is it not true that the job of properly metalling them and turning them into what we'd appreciate as "Roads" today was done by Government money? That's a question, not a statement, by the way.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Bump to await a response from Shanek.

Speaking of admitting you were wrong, do you still stand by the following statements you made?

1) All banks are forced at gunpoint to belong to the Federal Reserve

2) Spain had no problems with terrorism until they joined the US coalition in Iraq

Note to skeptics: Shanek will ignore this

So far, I am correct.

 

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

I'm not, but nice diversion from the subject...

I don't consider asking someone to back up their assertions a "diversion."

Now you have another sacred cow that is fully protected from the facts...

What facts? You still haven't told us what highway you were referring to.

 

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

The first transcontinental highway was paid for with funds from the car and tire manufacturers, who have the most to profit from a good road system. ...The transcontinental highway was also paid for partially with private buy-ins of $5.

It's an amazing coincidence that the Lincoln Highway also got funding from car/tire manufacturers and accepted contributions as low as $5, don't you think? I'll be interested to see if there are even more similarities to the highway you were talking about. What was its name?

Lincoln Highway: Origins

To fund this scheme, he asked for cash donations from auto manufacturers and accessory companies of 1 percent of their revenues. The public could become members of the highway organization for five dollars.

Two men from the automobile industry who pledged money to Fisher's idea would later play major roles in the highway's development: Frank Seiberling, president of Goodyear, and Henry Joy, president of the Packard Motor Car Company.

 

[Iamme]

Where is all the money going that the government is taking in from an ever groing working population, and from the gas tax?

We are receiving less and less from the government, even though we pay more. They want userfees more and more, also...like for the parks.

 

[Mike B.]

It's an amazing coincidence that the Lincoln Highway also got funding from car/tire manufacturers and accepted contributions as low as $5, don't you think? I'll be interested to see if there are even more similarities to the highway you were talking about. What was its name?

Lincoln Highway: Origins

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