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Prison driving Olympic bomber crazy....

"It is a closed-off world designed to isolate inmates from social and environmental stimuli, with the ultimate purpose of causing mental illness and chronic physical conditions such as diabetes, heart disease and arthritis," he wrote in one letter to The Gazette of Colorado Springs.
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Does lack of social stimuli really cause arthritis, diabetes and heart disease? Where is the study that shows that?

I really don't think we need to take the word of this man as to the conditions he is suffering. I do not consider him a trustworthy witness.
 
Do we have evidence of mental health isssues being caused by control unit prisons?


ETA: google led me to several layman level papers stating this is so, but I'm interested in what else might be out there.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Got it so you want to have say 4 full time emploies per prisoner?
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Sounds reasonable for a maximum security facility.

ponderingturtle said:
This would mean what 20% of america would be in prison either working or convicted?
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Presumably, if the US would ever move towards a rehabilitationary system, they'd also cut down on the number of inmates. Anyway, maximum security prisoners are surely very, very few in comparison. Most prisoners don't need much of guards, or even locks. You just tell them to stay until the end of the sentence, and most do it. Because they want to get it over with.
 
drkitten said:
I don't know which I find more disturbing.

That someone would apparently design (with your approval) a penitentiary system designed to cause insanity in the inmates

... or that someone could misdesign a penitentiary so badly that it causes insanity in the inmates, and that you nevertheless consider the system to "work."
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It's a toss up. Both are good!
 
Merko said:
Sounds reasonable for a maximum security facility.



Presumably, if the US would ever move towards a rehabilitationary system, they'd also cut down on the number of inmates. Anyway, maximum security prisoners are surely very, very few in comparison. Most prisoners don't need much of guards, or even locks. You just tell them to stay until the end of the sentence, and most do it. Because they want to get it over with.
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Your post, your responsibility. Do the leg work. Add up the costs. And by all means, prove the "presumably", or at least provide good references.

ETA: And while you're at it, please explain the social relationship an inmate with bodyguards might have with those without.
 
ponderingturtle said:
How should he be handeled? How should violent inmates be handeled?
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Exactly like he is being handled.

For what not to do just look at that video of Richard Speck laughing it up in prison while he and his lover snort cocaine and marvel at the large breasts he somehow got in prison.
 
Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph laments in a series of letters to a newspaper that the maximum-security federal prison where he is spending the rest of his life is designed to drive him insane.
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First reaction -- that's walking distance.

Second reaction -- that's far less stringent than the conditions under which Jose Padilla is being held, and he's been convicted of no crime. Let's worry about Padilla first. I am for humane treatment of prisoners, even slimeballs like Rudolph, but the conditions described seem unpleasant rather than torturous.
 
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headscratcher4 said:
I seem to recall that he plead guilty to get the death penalty off the table...one wonders what he thought Prison would be like for a man who planted bombs that killed people. I'm glad he wasn't executed. I am opposed to the death penalty. But, it is hard to feel too badly for him...yes, maybe he lacks the stimulation he craves...but it sounds like he's better off than the alleged terrorists who haven't even had a trial at G'tmo.
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I don't care that he is in prison for what he did, but I also think this qualifies as 'cruel and unusual punishment'. Not because I feel sorry for him, but just on principle.
 
Merko said:
Sounds reasonable for a maximum security facility.
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So you want to have to pay say 200 thousand a year or more per inmate?

Presumably, if the US would ever move towards a rehabilitationary system, they'd also cut down on the number of inmates. Anyway, maximum security prisoners are surely very, very few in comparison. Most prisoners don't need much of guards, or even locks. You just tell them to stay until the end of the sentence, and most do it. Because they want to get it over with.
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Please support this view, with gangs and such it is somewhat questionable about the number of maximum vs other security level prisoners. Please show some data.
 
My Googles skils are pretty weak. Didn't some maximum security prisoners take hostiges a few years back with their primary demand being access to a clock and electronic calendar?

Not all maximum security wings have television sets.
 
LibraryLady said:
Does lack of social stimuli really cause arthritis, diabetes and heart disease? Where is the study that shows that?
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I'm not familiar with such links, either.

I am familiar with the link between isolation and schizophrenia, a link that I consider strong enough that I'm willing to consider the SuperMax to be "torture" under international law.

Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, 1984

Article 1

For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as [...] punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed [...] when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.
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I think "deliberately causing schizophrenia" is a pretty good illustration of "severe mental suffering." The fact that I don't also know that it causes diabetes doesn't excuse causing schizophrenia.


I really don't think we need to take the word of this man as to the conditions he is suffering. I do not consider him a trustworthy witness.
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So don't take his word for it. The conditions at the Florence Supermax are well-documented.
 
ponderingturtle said:
So how do you ensure his safety in a way that is not cruel and unusual?
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Hire more staff, and issue fewer custodial sentences to reduce overcrowding. If the guards weren't spending all their time baby-sitting potheads, they could actually supervise the violent criminals. The fact that Constitutional rights are expensive doesn't make them any less "rights."
 
drkitten said:
Hire more staff, and issue fewer custodial sentences to reduce overcrowding. If the guards weren't spending all their time baby-sitting potheads, they could actually supervise the violent criminals. The fact that Constitutional rights are expensive doesn't make them any less "rights."
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So you think staff and prisoners need fewer protections against being attacked by prisoners and counter act that by much more staffing?
 
drkitten said:
No, I think that much more staffing provides an inherent level of protection.
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But you are depending on prisoners being thinking rational people, violent felons do not so often fall into this catagory. And how would you resolve the need for individuals like Rudolph to need bodyguards above and beyond normal protections?
 
ponderingturtle said:
But you are depending on prisoners being thinking rational people,
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Not at all. I'm merely noting the obvious. More guards on the floor means they can respond more quickly and effectively to security incidents.

One of the design criteria of the Florence SuperMax is specifically to require a much lower level of staffing (relative to the degree of prisoner control) that would be required with "conventional" methods). They've succeeded admirably in many ways; for example, (IIRC) the circular floor layout (instead of conventional rectilinear cell blocks) means that a single guard station has an unobstructed view of into all cells on the same floor. Unfortunately, to use this feature effectively requires that prisoners be in their cells and alone at all times, one of the psychosis-inducing drawbacks.
 
drkitten said:
Not at all. I'm merely noting the obvious. More guards on the floor means they can respond more quickly and effectively to security incidents.

One of the design criteria of the Florence SuperMax is specifically to require a much lower level of staffing (relative to the degree of prisoner control) that would be required with "conventional" methods). They've succeeded admirably in many ways; for example, (IIRC) the circular floor layout (instead of conventional rectilinear cell blocks) means that a single guard station has an unobstructed view of into all cells on the same floor. Unfortunately, to use this feature effectively requires that prisoners be in their cells and alone at all times, one of the psychosis-inducing drawbacks.
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So you just need to convice people to significantly increase spending on prisons.
 
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