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Prime Ministerial Debates- Thread

MarkCorrigan said:
Except that this presumably means the Tories, right? Well, that's not really viable, since they will still hold a significantly larger number of seats in the UK government overall, meaning that they will affect Scotland even if they don't make much progress in Scottish seats.
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So what? It's limited to 3 for the "national" debate. It should be limited to 3 for the Scottish ones.

The SNP pretty much only affects Scotland (for now, of course), whereas the "Big Three" affect everywhere.
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Yes indeed, the Tories can affect the whole of Scotland (even though they get fanny adam MP's up here) if they win the election and form a govt. Thats why we should get a chance to make a change. They are irrelevant to the Scottish electorate.

Some people want their cake and eat it eh?
 
It does make sense to exclude the tories in the scottish debate: they really are an irrelvance here
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Except that this presumably means the Tories, right? Well, that's not really viable, since they will still hold a significantly larger number of seats in the UK government overall, meaning that they will affect Scotland even if they don't make much progress in Scottish seats.

The SNP pretty much only affects Scotland (for now, of course), whereas the "Big Three" affect everywhere.
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Move the goal posts much?

So, the Tories get to be in a Scottish debate (in your version) because English votes for the Tories would affect Scotland.

How do Scottish votes for the SNP not affect England, then? At the very least, it's perfectly possible that an SNP/PC bloc could hold the balance of power to some extent. With a larger vote, certainly Darat seems to think Scottish independence would impact on England.

The Scots got to watch the Englishe debate(s) if they wanted to. The Conservatives got plenty exposure there, quite enough really. If the SNP are to be excluded from nominally UK debates, then by the same token the Conservatives should be excluded from Scottish debates.

Rolfe.
 
If Iain Gray is the speaker in the Scottish ones then Labour are screwed. The man is an imbecile. He comes across worse than Brown.
 
Fiona said:
It does make sense to exclude the tories in the scottish debate: they really are an irrelvance here
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Actually, that's a very valid point.

In Scotland, mes amis anglais, there are two main political parties: the SNP and Labour. The Lib-Dems are the potential coalition party and hence arguably have a voice. Let's apply your rules: let's bin the Tories. They're irrelevant. They'll never get more than a coupe of seats.

After all, why should a minority be able to dictate a voice in these public debates?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
However, when it has been pointed out to you that there will also be debates in Scotland and Wales that will, I assume, include the relevant parties you say....nothing. You seem to ignore it just so you can bleat about how a National program which is directed at 100% of the British voting public doesn't include views which when added together make up 16% of said public. Let's face it, the main three parties are the only ones who are actually able to lead the country as a whole. SNP and PC MP's certainly can get elected in reasonable numbers and can make a difference, but they aren't ever going to be in power. Making the National Debate about the parties that actually have the scope and power to form a government is sensible.
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Let me be honest: I welcome this kind of view.

No, really, I do.

Because if there's one thing guaranteed to produce Scottish independence it's this kind of "English Raj", bugger all you damned Celts, there's only 10m of you anyway, viewpoint.

Go, Tories, Go!
 
Architect said:
Let me be honest: I welcome this kind of view.

No, really, I do.

Because if there's one thing guaranteed to produce Scottish independence it's this kind of "English Raj", bugger all you damned Celts, there's only 10m of you anyway, viewpoint.

Go, Tories, Go!
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You genuinely think that's how I see it? An English Raj?

Good grief, I'm not saying that you're an irrelevance to the UK at all, I was making the point that what Rolfe said about the televised debate was stupid because Scotland is small. I wasn't saying that the SNP is worthless, nor do I think that minority views should be ignored. Personally I would be sad to lose Scotland from the Union, but if it doesn't screw us all up, and you all really want it, go for it. I know it's disheartening that Westminster won't give you what you want, and I think your being pissed off about that is fair enough.

That being said, the inclusion of a party with no chance of gaining seats outside a very small area and with little influence as of now on national politics into a national debate is ridiculous, whereas inclusion of a party who do not do well within the area but have a high chance of getting some control over it is an obvious choice to stand up in a local debate for that area.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
By the way, does Britain really have worse Cancer survival rates than Bulgaria? Fact Check please.
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I wondered that. Not just whether it was true but why Bulgaria? Anyway a quick google search shows a couple of recent reports.

This one by London University (School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine) was done in 2008. The UK is fairly low down on the list but no sign of Bulgaria.

The Torygraph in 2009 referred to a report by the Organisation for the Economic Cooperation and Development however I think you need to pay for the full version. There is a trial version you can try.
 
The SNP and other such parties are not nationwide parties, if they were then there would be a strong argument that they should be represented even if there percentage of the overall vote was as low as it is today. When the likes of the SNP are interested in forming the next UK government, e.g have candidates throughout the country and want to represent non-Scottish resident (Welsh/N.Irish and so on) constituents then I would say they should be (because of their position in the devolved assembles/parliaments) be part of the national debate - but as long as they remain regional parties then I can't see why they would expect to be part of a national debate.
 
Darat said:
The SNP and other such parties are not nationwide parties, if they were then there would be a strong argument that they should be represented even if there percentage of the overall vote was as low as it is today. When the likes of the SNP are interested in forming the next UK government, e.g have candidates throughout the country and want to represent non-Scottish resident (Welsh/N.Irish and so on) constituents then I would say they should be (because of their position in the devolved assembles/parliaments) be part of the national debate - but as long as they remain regional parties then I can't see why they would expect to be part of a national debate.
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I, for one, have never though Salmond should go near this national debate. The Tories should not get near the Scottish one either.
 
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Have there been any figures on whether there was any difference in how the three candidates were perceived by people watching the debate on TV or listening on the radio (as there was in the Nixon/Kennedy debate 50 years ago)?
 
There has been a Sun/YouGov poll which was taken on Friday putting support at: Tory 33%, (down 4%) LibDem 30% (up 8%) Labour 28% (down 3%). The BBC says
Applying the figures [...] to the BBC News website's election seat calculator, results in the following: Labour 276 seats; Conservatives 245 seats; Lib Dems 100 seats; Others 29 seats.

This is the first national poll sampled after Thursday's debate. Clearly the findings, if confirmed by the polls expected on Sunday, are important. It is worth pointing out that the two point difference between the Liberal Democrats and Labour is within normal sampling error, so it does not mean Labour is definitively in third place.

Although the headline focus may be on the Liberal Democrats appearing ahead of Labour we should not ignore the poll's suggestion that the Conservative fall in support is bigger than Labour's.

Perhaps it is best to consider this single poll as an immediate referendum on Thursday night's debate, until we have evidence, if any, that it represents the settled will of British voters.
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It will be interesting to see if Sunday's polls replicate this fall in Tory and Lab support and the jump in Lib Dem support.
 
zooterkin said:
Have there been any figures on whether there was any difference in how the three candidates were perceived by people watching the debate on TV or listening on the radio (as there was in the Nixon/Kennedy debate 50 years ago)?
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I was thinking of doing that for the next debate. Want to watch it on TV and see how we differ?
 
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