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Pre-Thread: "Why did the terrorists attack USA?"

MaGZ said:
OBL has always claimed the US was attacked because of this country’s foreign policy in the Middle East. The two issue mention by him were the American military presence in Saudi Arabia and support for Israel against the Palestinians.
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Okay. True. (I never intended the OP to exhaustively cover the entire topic)

I also did not mention inner-islamic desires for a united Umma, moving towards a caliphate, and positioning leaders of AQ as leaders of the Umma.
Amazing you did not count these also. Amazing :p
 
Thunder said:
source? my damn good memory.

btw, wtf did you put this in the 9-11 CT section?
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Well, one thing that I do want to include in the discussion is the allegation by some critics of the official reports that this topic has been deliberately left out, for example by the 9/11 Commission.
 
MaGZ said:
OBL has always claimed the US was attacked because of this country’s foreign policy in the Middle East. The two issue mention by him were the American military presence in Saudi Arabia and support for Israel against the Palestinians.
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Looking at articles written before 9/11 (eg relating to the USS Cole, Kenya, etc) it seems it was the US presence in Saudi and the aggression against the Iraqi people.

These are articles also showing OBL did actually exist before 2001.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/oct/19/alqaida.iraq
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/413991.stm
Warning, they've probably been re-written by the CIA since the originals were put up :rolleyes:

Fatwas by OBL.
http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen1.htm
 
Oystein said:
Well, one thing that I do want to include in the discussion is the allegation by some critics of the official reports that this topic has been deliberately left out, for example by the 9/11 Commission.
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i don't think the 9-11 Commission cared about "why" it was done.

Just how.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism3

In the context of that global programme, the destruction of the twin towers, spectacular atrocity though it was, is merely a by-blow in al-Qaida's current campaign. Neither the US nor Israel is Bin Laden's primary target - rather it is Bin Laden's homeland, Saudi Arabia. The corrupt and repressive royal house, like the Mongol Ilkhanate of the 14th century, is damned as a Jahili scandal. Therefore, al-Qaida's primary task is to liberate the holy cities of Mecca and Medina from their rule.
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To the OP...take your pick...it seems to change over time.
 
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Debaser said:
Looking at articles written before 9/11 (eg relating to the USS Cole, Kenya, etc) it seems it was the US presence in Saudi and the aggression against the Iraqi people.

These are articles also showing OBL did actually exist before 2001.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/oct/19/alqaida.iraq
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/413991.stm
Warning, they've probably been re-written by the CIA since the originals were put up :rolleyes:

Fatwas by OBL.
http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen1.htm
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Thank you! :)

Indeed, OBL seems to mention Iraq more often in his relevant statements at the relevant time than Israel. That is interesting.
 
Thunder said:
i don't think the 9-11 Commission cared about "why" it was done.

Just how.
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Well, my understanding of the Commissions ultimate commission: To figure out how America's agencies could be prepared to defend against such attacks. That could sensibly include policy considerations to avoid the incentives to be attacked.
 
Oystein said:
Well, my understanding of the Commissions ultimate commission: To figure out how America's agencies could be prepared to defend against such attacks. That could sensibly include policy considerations to avoid the incentives to be attacked.
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no, that would have been very silly.

the 9-11 Commission was not created to suggest alterations to America's foreign policy. had they even SUGGESTED that our foreign policy somehow motivated the attacks, the backlash would have been fierce.
 
Debaser said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism3



To the OP...take your pick...it seems to change over time.
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Yeah, that's my feeling, too. I am not sure I would take statements made some years before or after 2001 too literally. Anything that AQ leaders say in 2005 for example would likely be influenced by the hindsight knowledge of how the USA did in fact react. It is easy to claim with hindsight that the objective was to draw USA into wars.

Also, I am not sure that we should focus so very much on OBL and the inner AQ leadership.
There is also the issue of KSM, Atta, binhalship forming a cell within AQ that probably had some autonomy, and their owns motivations and objectives. How do you motivate a suicide pilot?


One motivation for particularly the kind of attack that was carried out could simply be: A huge prank.
Imagine many radical islamists, brainstorming.. what can we do... spectacular attacks... There had been bombings of large buildings with tripel digit casualties. How can we top that?
In a sinister sense, 9/11 was waaaay cool. Very visible, very media-friendly, nearly Bond-villainish style. Imagine KSM watching TV that day! The boasting! The pride!

(For the RedIbis of this world: Imagine the set of mind and emotions of the NWO pranksters)
 
Thunder said:
no, that would have been very silly.

the 9-11 Commission was not created to suggest alterations to America's foreign policy. had they even SUGGESTED that our foreign policy somehow motivated the attacks, the backlash would have been fierce.
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So that's why the Commission was ordered to stick their feet into their mouths with regards to foreign policy? :p

Thunder, I am with you that the Commission cannot very well discuss foreign policy strategy.
However, even if the Commission could not talk about it, we can!
 
@ Oystein

My aim was to try to find statements made before 2001, basically showing AQ and OBL were active many years before 9/11 and also their original/longer term motivation. There seemed to be a concensus that the August 1998 embassy bombings were carried out on or around the anniversary of the arrival of US troops in Saudi prior to Gulf War 1 and this was his main greivance.
 
Debaser said:
@ Oystein

My aim was to try to find statements made before 2001, basically showing AQ and OBL were active many years before 9/11 and also their original/longer term motivation. There seemed to be a concensus that the August 1998 embassy bombings were carried out on or around the anniversary of the arrival of US troops in Saudi prior to Gulf War 1 and this was his main greivance.
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ObL offered to defend the Saudi kingdom from Saddam with the help of his mujaheddin when Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi. King Saud refused the offer and let the US in instead.

As a direct result, ObL declared was on both. AQ has executed a couple major attacks on the Saudis.

Some of this may be new to you.

Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda Updated 5/22/09

http://911links.webs.com/index.htm

Table Of Contents
[1] NEWS (Jan 2001) Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target
[2] (Jan 2001) ObL Tells Reporter that US attacks are comming.
[3] New York Times reports about al Queda about 89 times prior to 9/11/2001
[4] bin Laden quotes
[5] Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
[6] 1996: bin Laden declares war on America.
[7] ObL attacks on America prior to 2001 listed
[8] Specific attack warnings
[9] Bibliography
  • Al Qaeda Now - Understanding today's terrorists - Ed. by Greenberg
  • 9/11 Comission Report Ch. 6.3
  • The Commission - The Uncensored History Of The 9/11 Investigation by Shenon, Philip
  • Messages to the world; The statements of Osama bin Laden translated by Bruce Lawrence
  • Congressional Report for Congress; Al Qaede: Statements and Evolving Ideology
  • The Power of Nightmares VIDEO (3 parts) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
  • The Shadow Factory - The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 by Bamford
  • PBS Nova Spy Factory
  • Ghost Wars by Cole
  • The Looming Tower - Wright
  • The bin Ladens by Cole
  • Spying Blind by Amy Zegart.

[10] 1998 ObL Fatwa calling for attack on the US
[11] Complete 9/11 timeline
[12] Answer to "bin Laden not wanted by FBI"
[13] US Government "Wanted" poster for biin Ladem
[14] KSM's indictment document
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BigAl said:
ObL offered to defend the Saudi kingdom from Saddam with the help of his mujaheddin when Saddam invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi. King Saud refused the offer and let the US in instead.

As a direct result, ObL declared was on both. AQ has executed a couple major attacks on the Saudis.
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Putting myself in the Saudi royal family's shoes, I can see the reasoning. Letting a man who hates us and our corruption onto our soil, with his holy warriors (paid for out of his pocket), and then hope that after any conflict they'd quietly leave? The infidel US and the coalition was easily the lesser of those evils.
 
" "Why did the terrorists attack USA?""

because they wanted to draw the US into a religious war. It allows them to gain power as any opponent within their religion can be branded a traitor.

With hindsight staying in Afghanistan was a mistake and invading Iraq likewise.....it let them fight a guerrilla war, the only kind they could hope to win. better to have gone in, swept the Taliban from power......killing as many of them as possible and then left leaving a note......help others attack us and you will pay a heavy price.
 
Debaser said:
Putting myself in the Saudi royal family's shoes, I can see the reasoning. Letting a man who hates us and our corruption onto our soil, with his holy warriors (paid for out of his pocket), and then hope that after any conflict they'd quietly leave? The infidel US and the coalition was easily the lesser of those evils.
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The US ain't leaving either...
 
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