"Praying for you.." a vent

[David Wong]

Just look at them and say "well eff you too!" Why, because that's what they really mean when they say "I'm praying for you."

You can't seriously be so full of hate and anti-Christian bigotry as to believe that. No one can be.

 

[David Wong]

From their point of view, it is a gesture of affection and concern...but yes, I agree, Christians have a responsibility to help and assist in the physical world as well and prayer is not a substitute.

As their own church tries to teach them every single Sunday.

 

[David Wong]

I overheard one woman saying she would pray for another whose mother had cancer. I thought why don't you do something useful like donate to cancer research...

Why does doing one prevent them from doing the other?

I've heard others say (not out loud but in posts) "Thanks but no thanks, we now know from prayer and healing studies that those who are prayed for actually do worse than those who were not prayed for, so I would rather you didn't pray for me"

Again, more proof that there are by percentage exactly as many bigoted Atheist fundamentalists as there are bigoted Christian fundamentalists. I look forward to a more enlightened future without either.

 

[A Christian Sceptic]

How do you respond to someone saying "I'm praying for you."?

React the same way you would if someone says "I'll be keeping you in my thoughts" or "I'm wishing the best for you". or "I'm hoping it all works out" or "you have my ______" fill in the blank adjective for them expressing some empathy to you.

Outwardly I smiled and said "Thank you" but my inside was screaming : instead of spending time praying..um..bring me a casserole, or a bucket of chicken, take my kids to a movie, drive over to my house and feed and let out my dogs, take my kids to their band lesson or baseball practice, buy me a cup of coffee. Do something USEFUL please!

Then ask them for some specific help if you need it. Don't make them have to guess through your "smile" and "thank you".

 

[Mobyseven]

React the same way you would if someone says "I'll be keeping you in my thoughts" or "I'm wishing the best for you". or "I'm hoping it all works out" or "you have my ______" fill in the blank adjective for them expressing some empathy to you.



Then ask them for some specific help if you need it. Don't make them have to guess through your "smile" and "thank you".

Agreed. While "I'll pray for you" can be and often is used in a condescending manner (in which case, "And I'll think for you" is a perfect pithy response), that's not the situation in the OP.

The friends aren't saying, "We'll pray for him, and so should you. And you should stop the doctors from treating him, or you'll make God angry and he'll punish you. Pray - or you're doomed." They're giving you the equivalent of, "Hope he gets well soon," or, "You're in our thoughts."

If you need specific help with something, ask for it. Your friends are clearly concerned for you - if you're having issues running kids around or the like, it can't hurt to ask for some extra assistance.

 

[Susan Gerbic]

Originally Posted by sgf8
I overheard one woman saying she would pray for another whose mother had cancer. I thought why don't you do something useful like donate to cancer research...

Why does doing one prevent them from doing the other?

Quote:

I've heard others say (not out loud but in posts) "Thanks but no thanks, we now know from prayer and healing studies that those who are prayed for actually do worse than those who were not prayed for, so I would rather you didn't pray for me"

Again, more proof that there are by percentage exactly as many bigoted Atheist fundamentalists as there are bigoted Christian fundamentalists. I look forward to a more enlightened future without either.

They aren't offering to help are they, they are just passing the buck on to their invisible friend. If they truly wanted to help they would offer to do so. I am not likely to ask for help either, if they ask then fine I might suggest something. But this attitude that somehow they are doing something when they say they will pray for you has gotta go. The sooner Christians realize that they are not the default the better. If they want pray for their Christian friends then fine, but don't assume others are of their faith.

And what about the prayer and healing study I mentioned. I am correct that those people who were prayed for actually did worse health wise, so I am not out of line in saying, please don't pray for me, I want to get better.

Again, I want to say that I am not for being rude with the older church ladies, who say they will pray for you all day long, even when you are having a good day, like trying to get them to stop saying "bless you" which is another rant. I am talking about my peers that should know better. Even those that know I'm an atheist, how rude! If they are sick can I say, "don't worry, Thor is watching over you?" How stupid. They would find that offensive, and so do I.

Susan

 

[MattusMaximus]

Then ask them for some specific help if you need it. Don't make them have to guess through your "smile" and "thank you".

Yup, good advice there. They may have a "hotline to God", but since we all know that psychic phenomena are bogus, I think you'd be much more effective in communication by utilizing your lungs, throat, and larynx. If you don't ask for help, you can hardly blame people for not having the power to read your mind, whether they have supposed access to the "hotline" or not.

As I tell my wife (who is Christian, btw), she has to tell me what she wants, because the telepathy transmitter is down!

 

[Safe-Keeper]

They aren't offering to help are they, they are just passing the buck on to their invisible friend.

Do you get mad when someone says "you'll be in my thoughts" or "I'm sorry to hear that", too? After all, neither of those are promises of help either.

But this attitude that somehow they are doing something when they say they will pray for you has gotta go.

I kinda agree, but the problem is that I have a nasty feeling it can't go until they're also convinced prayer doesn't work. They sincerely believe prayer helps, the same way I sincerely believe donations to some cancer organization helps.

Instead of getting believers to stop believing in prayer, you should tell them that, like donating money, prayer is just the tip of the ice berg when it comes to giving a hand and that if they really care about the issue, there's much more they can do.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

...

The sooner Christians realize that they are not the default the better. If they want pray for their Christian friends then fine, but don't assume others are of their faith.

...

Even those that know I'm an atheist, how rude! If they are sick can I say, "don't worry, Thor is watching over you?" How stupid. They would find that offensive, and so do I.

Susan

I used to occassionally pray for the general well-being of my Eastern Orthodox friend, my lapsed Catholic friend and my Muslim friend. I never told them because I wasn't sure how they'd react but I certainly meant the best.

I'm sure that's the same way they feel about praying for their atheist and agnostic freinds/ relatives/ acquaintances.

 

[Susan Gerbic]

I'm sure that's the same way they feel about praying for their atheist and agnostic freinds/ relatives/ acquaintances.

Sorry I'm not buying it. One of my best friends is a Christian (and becoming more fundy every day) and she (and others I know) tell me they pray for me all the time. They might think they mean well, but it comes across as hostile, not as kind.

Do you get mad when someone says "you'll be in my thoughts" or "I'm sorry to hear that", too? After all, neither of those are promises of help either.

Nope, I don't see these as the same thing. People who say they will pray for a sick person think they are doing something to help. "I'm thinking of you", or "I'm sorry" just aren't the same thing. My point with people offering to do something for an ill person is that maybe they should do something that really does help.

Let me put this another way.... If I am ill and a friend says, "I'm sorry to hear that, I'm going to water my lawn for you" or "because you are ill, I'll do 25 jumping jacks" I know that sounds like gibberish but it is what I feel they are saying. "I'm sorry to hear you are ill, so I will go do something worthless to help you instead of actually doing something that might help out." My answer, "ah thanks, but no thanks"

Susan

 

[Leif Roar]

People who say they will pray for a sick person think they are doing something to help.

In my experience -- which admittedly is primarily limited to various Lutherian denomiations -- most Christians don't see prayer as a means of achieving an effect. Instead they see it as a means of expression. Prayer isn't meant to entice God to do something, but is a way to express oneself to God. It's like asking a friend for advice when you already know what you have to do. The form might be in a request for advice, but the purpose is to express yourself and to be listened to by your friend.

In a way it's like crossing your fingers for luck -- you don't do it to cause good luck, you do it to express that you're hoping for good luck. Sure, there are probably some people out there who [/i]do[/i] cross their fingers, thinking it will cause them good luck, but those are the exception.

 

[Nankay]

sgf8: You really hit the nail on the head for me. By saying they'll pray for us, they are telling me that this is what they are choosing to do for us in the way of help. I am merely asking that instead of something useless (aka watering their lawn their for me), do something of use! Of the people I have encountered , those that say "We'll pray for you" offer to do nothing else. Those that do not mention prayer are the ones that ask directly. "What can I do for you?" (they may be praying too, but it does not seem to be the focus of their help)

 

[Susan Gerbic]

sgf8: You really hit the nail on the head for me. By saying they'll pray for us, they are telling me that this is what they are choosing to do for us in the way of help. I am merely asking that instead of something useless (aka watering their lawn their for me), do something of use! Of the people I have encountered , those that say "We'll pray for you" offer to do nothing else. Those that do not mention prayer are the ones that ask directly. "What can I do for you?" (they may be praying too, but it does not seem to be the focus of their help)

Thanks, I thought I would open this thread to see that I had been hammered for my post. Glad it hit home for someone.

In my experience -- which admittedly is primarily limited to various Lutherian denomiations -- most Christians don't see prayer as a means of achieving an effect. Instead they see it as a means of expression. Prayer isn't meant to entice God to do something, but is a way to express oneself to God. It's like asking a friend for advice when you already know what you have to do. The form might be in a request for advice, but the purpose is to express yourself and to be listened to by your friend.

My mom's older church friends who are always saying this kind of thing, are hoping for intervention of some kind. I know this because when I was a teen I remember my mom getting "prayer chain" phone calls. They would call the next person on the list and tell them to pray for so n so's surgery, or sick mother or whatever. I don't know if they "asked" for help from God, but they seemed to think they were helping somehow.

And again, my peers that know I am an atheist, pray for me to find God. (Ain't working, so maybe they are wrong?) They are trying to make something happen with me and God. Not trying to be polite, just rude in my opinion.

Susan

 

[Tricky]

How do you respond to someone saying "I'm praying for you."?

"Well, thank The Goddess for that."

 

[GreyICE]

I don't really see the harm. Okay, yes, it can get annoying, but chances are very few of them are trained medical professionals. Letting the professionals take care of it while you offer kind sentiments and any help that you can seems reasonable.

Now if they're just offering platitudes instead of help, I'd say it well, not unexpected. But honestly, if they're offering the platitudes with some help, eh... well, to be honest, I wouldn't take the help anyway, I never do. But that's my personal character flaw.

 

[Susan Gerbic]

I don't really see the harm. Okay, yes, it can get annoying, but chances are very few of them are trained medical professionals. Letting the professionals take care of it while you offer kind sentiments and any help that you can seems reasonable.

It doesn't take a medical professional to walk your dog, or water your lawn.

Susan

 

[GreyICE]

It doesn't take a medical professional to walk your dog, or water your lawn.

Susan

Wow. It's almost like I covered that exact subject in the exact post you quoted.

It really wasn't that long.

*facepalm*

 

[thaiboxerken]

You can't seriously be so full of hate and anti-Christian bigotry as to believe that. No one can be.

I'm not full of hate and anti-Christian bigotry. However, I've made the observation that most of the time, when the phrase is said to me, they really do mean "eff you."

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Wow, that sounds like a scary infection. Invasive streptococcal disease can be real bad if that's what it was. The bacteria produce an enzyme that just opens all the barriers allowing the bacteria to invade rapidly through the body. I am so glad for you that it was treated in time. Will there be a lot of tissue that needs to heal?

It is the same bacteria that causes a form of "flesh eating" infection. Jim Henson of the Muppets died from this infection in his lungs.

I tell you this now because you said hubby is better. I wouldn't want to freak you out if he wasn't.

This kind of infection is very traumatic because one can be a healthy person one day and near death literally hours later. You are darn right, hooray for modern medicine!

I'd say two things about the neighbor's offer to pray. He likely meant well, and didn't know what else to do. When a person is very upset (you), such comments can cause your stress to 'vent' so to speak and maybe it was more bothersome than usual because of the situation. This probably isn't the time to take your stress out on someone else's magical beliefs.

But in your next few encounters with the neighbor, I might casually mention how effective modern medicine was and maybe bring up how sad it is for people who think prayer will help and don't seek medical care in time. It's a bit passive-aggressive, but could be satisfying.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not full of hate and anti-Christian bigotry. However, I've made the observation that most of the time, when the phrase is said to me, they really do mean "eff you."

When people are praying for someone's soul, the unspoken message is they believe because the person's beliefs do not conform to theirs the person is going to hell. I think some blame and excuse 'God' for that outcome rather than consciously agreeing while others like the Hagees, the Falwells, the Dobsons and the Jesse Helms of this world actually think the outcome is deserved.

But praying for someone to get better is praying for a different reason.