Praying for Flordia

[Dr. Popalot]

In this weeks commentary (9-24-04) under the heading of "Theoracy Denied" the following statement was made:
"President Bush assured the devastated citizens there that "We're praying for you,..."

Is it just me or does anyone else see the similarity to this account and the stroy about Uri Geller's support of various sports teams. With the continued assaults by hurricanes, the people of Flordia should be asking Bush and the rest of the country to stop praying for them. They can't take it any more. Hurricanes must be attracted by the psychic energy of prayers.

 

[Just thinking]

In this weeks commentary (9-24-04) under the heading of "Theoracy Denied" the following statement was made:
"President Bush assured the devastated citizens there that "We're praying for you,..."

They can't take it any more. Hurricanes must be attracted by the psychic energy of prayers.

This is a good point ... no, not what President Bush said, but how you edited it and how Randi seems to think only Republicans are religious. Of course the important issue was that he would send help to the people ASAP -- that's what's reassuring. Praying for someone of course does little (OK, nothing at all in my opinion), but why get on someone's case for expressing their personal feelings? Randi, and myself included, should get upset if all they did in Washington was just offer prayers. And if anyone thinks that praying will alter a hurricane's direction or intesity, then that's their private little fantasy.

I get the feeling that you were joking a bit with your comments, and I pretty much agree how praying is silly. I just think we sometimes get a little too excited whenever someone invokes their personal feelings and take it too much to heart. After all, isn't that what we get so upset about whenever believers go ballistic over hearing someone admit to being non-theistic?

 

[BillyJoe]

The survivors of a boating accident thank God for saving their lives. But where the hell was God when the boat sank?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I get the feeling that you were joking a bit with your comments, and I pretty much agree how praying is silly. I just think we sometimes get a little too excited whenever someone invokes their personal feelings and take it too much to heart. After all, isn't that what we get so upset about whenever believers go ballistic over hearing someone admit to being non-theistic?

I think when presidents do such things, it can have a negative impact on society. It tends to validate to the noncritical thinkers that there is a god and that prayer does do something. Bush is a fool that has admitted and bragged that he is getting his direction from "god". I'd rather have a president that uses reason, evidence and logic to make decisions.

 

[Just thinking]

Bush is a fool that has admitted and bragged that he is getting his direction from "god". I'd rather have a president that uses reason, evidence and logic to make decisions.

Now you're taking the issue to another level that was never intended; be it that a person who believes his actions come from dictates of a god is a fool, it was how Bush handled and commented about the situation in Florida that was critiqued by Randi. If he feels that praying is beneficial (as I do not), that is entirely his personal choice. If praying for the people is all he does, then that is idiotic. But if he realizes that prayers alone aren't enough and sends aid (which is quite logical), then perhaps one shouldn't be so harsh. Remember, President Kennedy looked for advice in God, and he eliminated missiles in Cuba and started our journey into space.

 

[Linda]

As a Floridian, when I hear that President Bush is praying for us, I feel like a fan who has just learned Uri Geller is supporting his favorite team.

 

[thaiboxerken]

President Kennedy looked for advice in God, and he eliminated missiles in Cuba and started our journey into space.

Even the most faulty reasoning can come up with good ideas sometimes.

 

[Just thinking]

Even the most faulty reasoning can come up with good ideas sometimes.

Absolutely. Other people (to just name 2) that looked for guidance were Lincoln and Kepler. It just stikes me as odd that so many will use personal religious belief as some sort of Litmus Test to determine if someone can accomplish the task at hand.

 

[Just thinking]

As a Floridian, when I hear that President Bush is praying for us, I feel like a fan who has just learned Uri Geller is supporting his favorite team.

And you, along with all those you can influence, are going to turn down any needed hurricane relief aid as well??

 

[allanb]

God must have thought it was a good idea to cause pain and suffering in Florida. Who does this fellow Bush think he is, questioning God's decisions in this way?

 

[Just thinking]

God must have thought it was a good idea to cause pain and suffering in Florida. Who does this fellow Bush think he is, questioning God's decisions in this way?

How did you come to those conclusions???

Respectfully requested.

(Come on, that's a joke, right? I mean, if the president does nothing he can be labeled an idiot and hateful b-st--rd; and if he helps out you critique his behavior and motives?)

 

[Linda]

And you, along with all those you can influence, are going to turn down any needed hurricane relief aid as well??

I hope you're joking, as I was.
I've just made another donation to the Red Cross and I urge anyone else who is able, to do so too. I believe their number is 1-800-HELP-NOW.

 

[Just thinking]

I hope you're joking, as I was.

Certainly. Florida is way over its disaster quota for some time to come.

 

[Skep]

The survivors of a boating accident thank God for saving their lives. But where the hell was God when the boat sank?

This is not a problem exclusive to religion. People who survive horrific accidents often say how "lucky" they were (and often give thanks to god, as well). My definition of "lucky" doesn't include being involved in a horrific accident in the first place.

 

[Skep]

Even the most faulty reasoning can come up with good ideas sometimes.

Absolutely. Other people (to just name 2) that looked for guidance were Lincoln and Kepler. It just stikes me as odd that so many will use personal religious belief as some sort of Litmus Test to determine if someone can accomplish the task at hand.

...and a stopped clock is right twice a day, but it doesn't help you tell what time it is. Faulty reasoning can't help you tell the good ideas from the bad ones, so the possiblity that it can come up "with good ideas sometimes" has no value.

 

[Just thinking]

...and a stopped clock is right twice a day, but it doesn't help you tell what time it is. Faulty reasoning can't help you tell the good ideas from the bad ones, so the possiblity that it can come up "with good ideas sometimes" has no value.

I would hardly declare what Lincoln and Kepler did was arrived at through faulty reasoning.

Lincoln based his freeing of slaves as a direct reflection of what he felt it would be like as a slave himself.

Kepler refused to allow anything other than sound mathematics to rule over his conclusions; even when his original hypothesis were wrong. If it didn't work, he changed his hypothesis.

Please present your evidence.

 

[allanb]

Come on, that's a joke, right? I mean, if the president does nothing he can be labeled an idiot and hateful b-st--rd; and if he helps out you critique his behavior and motives?

Sorry, you missed my point, which is the absurdity of praying for relief from a disaster when the God you are praying to is the one who permitted the disaster to happen in the first place.

I have never criticised the President for trying to help, but this particular method of helping is a waste of time.

 

[Just thinking]

Sorry, you missed my point, which is the absurdity of praying for relief from a disaster when the God you are praying to is the one who permitted the disaster to happen in the first place.

I have never criticised the President for trying to help, but this particular method of helping is a waste of time.

Perhaps I did miss it, but I can tell you that as an atheist I have spoken to quite a few believers, and they do not all go along with your line of reasoning (on their behalf). Some believe that after all creation, God let the universe continue entirely on its own accord -- taking the good along with the bad. A sort of hands-off approach.

And just because a person prays (or prays for someone) does not make their efforts (of aid and relief) any less wasteful. He was certainly wise enough to know that prayers alone won't do what was needed. You know, wishing someone good luck or wishing someone well is just as silly and wasteful, yet I don't get the sense that anyone on this forum will get as upset or critical over those comments. Be honest, have you ever said "Good Luck" to anyone recently?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I would hardly declare what Lincoln and Kepler did was arrived at through faulty reasoning.

Lincoln based his freeing of slaves as a direct reflection of what he felt it would be like as a slave himself.

Kepler refused to allow anything other than sound mathematics to rule over his conclusions; even when his original hypothesis were wrong. If it didn't work, he changed his hypothesis.

Please present your evidence.

Perhaps you missed it, but someone else claimed that these people arrived at their conclusions because their god told them things. Not through actual reasoning.

 

[Just thinking]

Perhaps you missed it, but someone else claimed that these people arrived at their conclusions because their god told them things. Not through actual reasoning.

I think you might need to do some research on Kepler to see just how long he struggled to get the Law of Planetary Motion right. If some god was directing him, why did he accept only the math and not his gut feelings, as did Aristotle?