Merged Pox Party! / Chicken pox lollipops

ZirconBlue said:
I've heard of this, before. All I can do is shake my head in wonder at the stupidity of some people.
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Maybe it's stupid, and maybe it's just tradition...

I can remember my mother talking this sort of thing happening in an informal way, back when I had chicken pox in the 50s. There were no vaccines for those diseases then, and some of them, most pointedly mumps, are ghastly on people older then about 15 years old. Someone in the neighborhood would have a kid who was disagnosed with mumps or CP, and other mothers would have their kids come over for an afternoon to "entertain" their sick friend. While not exactly encouraged by doctors back then, it was a "grandma's chicken soup" method to get those problems out of the way.

EDT: I see dirtywick and Schrodinger's Cat made the same point above. It was a fairly good idea back then; today we have a better one.
 
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I had chicken pox in 1975, at age thirteen. It was the worst disease of my childhood, or probably since. I had a 103 fever for several days and could barely get myself out to the outhouse (no plumbing in the summer house) without several rests. I was too sick to even drink water. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It was horrible. I've heard a lot of people say it was no big deal, but for me it was, and I just cringe when I hear about people deliberately exposing their kids. Get the vaccine, for crying out loud!
 
Sadly, web sites claiming to be sources of information on chicken pox are full of lies and distortions.

This one looks valid to unsuspecting parents: National Vaccine Information Center
Yes. Between March 1995 and July 1998, the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) received 6, 574 reports of health problems after chickenpox vaccination. That translates into 67.5 adverse events per 100,000 doses of vaccine or one in 1,481 vaccinations. About four percent of cases (about 1 in 33,000 doses) were serious including shock, encephalitis, thrombocytopenia (blood disorder) and 14 deaths. The VAERS data has led to the addition of 17 adverse events to the manufacturer's product label since the vaccine was licensed in 1995, including secondary bacterial infections (cellulitis), secondary transmission of vaccine virus infection to close contacts, transverse myelitis and Guillain Barre syndrome (brain disorders) and herpes zoster (shingles). There have been documented cases of transmission of vaccine virus from a vaccinated child to household contacts, including a pregnant woman. A study in 2002 confirmed that adults exposed to natural chickenpox disease were protected from developing shingles and that there is concern that mass vaccination against chickenpox may cause a future epidemic of shingles, affecting more than 50 percent of Americans aged 10 to 44 years.
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But anyone who knows the most basic thing about the VAERs information knows the raw data includes all the coincidental events that occur after a vaccine is given. The web site producers have to know they are publishing lies. There's is no way they have not been told that, yet they leave the lies on the page.

The cited study claiming that: adults exposed to natural chickenpox disease were protected from developing shingles is outright false. If that was the case, why did shingles even occur before the vaccine? Everyone with shingles had to have had natural chicken pox.

Here is one study on shingles with the actual data: The incidence and clinical characteristics of herpes zoster among children and adolescents after implementation of varicella vaccination.
RESULTS:
From 2000 to 2006, the incidence of herpes zoster among children <10 years of age declined by 55%, from 42 cases reported in 2000 (74.8/100,000 persons; 95% confidence interval [95% CI]: 55.3-101.2) to 18 reported in 2006 (33.3/100,000; 95% CI: 20.9-52.8; P<0.001). During the same period, the incidence of herpes zoster among 10- to 19-year-olds increased by 63%, from 35 cases reported in 2000 (59.5/100,000 persons; 95% CI: 42.7-82.9) to 64 reported in 2006 (96.7/100,000; 95% CI: 75.7-123.6; P<0.02). Among children aged<10 years, those with a history of varicella vaccination had a 4 to 12 times lower risk for developing herpes zoster compared with children with history of varicella disease.

CONCLUSIONS:
Varicella vaccine substantially decreases the risk of herpes zoster among vaccinated children and its widespread use will likely reduce overall herpes zoster burden in the United States. The increase in herpes zoster incidence among 10- to 19-year-olds could not be confidently explained and needs to be confirmed from other data sources.
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That's the polar opposite of the lie on the anti-vaxxer site masquerading as a source of valid information.

It is suggested that exposure to wild varicella virus may boost people's immunity to varicela thus delaying zoster occurrences. If you eliminate the natural booster effect you may see a change in zoster occurrences or demographics. That can be managed with vaccine boosters, and zoster is treatable with acyclovir, a relatively safe anti-viral drug. No need for kids to die from natural varicella to leave natural boosting from wild varicella cases out there. It's cruel.


Sad sad sad.
 
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Pre-vaccine this might have been a reasonable thing to do as the virus' effect is much reduced in children than if infected later in life as an adult. OTOH, we have a vaccine today so anyone intentionally infecting their children is abusing them.
 
Medscape
Before vaccination for varicella became widespread in the United States, this disease affected approximately 4 million children per year, caused as many as 100 deaths in children annually, and was responsible for an estimated $400 million in medical costs and lost wages each year. Since the varicella vaccine was introduced in the United States in 1995, disease incidence has substantially decreased. (See Epidemiology.)

Chickenpox is usually a benign disease in children, and almost all children recover uneventfully. (See Prognosis.) However, varicella is not totally benign even today. A significant number of varicella cases are associated with complications, among the most serious of which are varicella pneumonia and encephalitis.
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Rapidly invasive group A strep can also follow chicken pox.
Who is most at risk of getting invasive group A streptococcal disease?

Few people who come in contact with GAS will develop invasive GAS disease. Most people will have a throat or skin infection, and some may have no symptoms at all. Although healthy people can get invasive GAS disease, people with chronic illnesses like cancer, diabetes, and chronic heart or lung disease, and those who use medications such as steroids have a higher risk. Persons with skin lesions (such as cuts, chicken pox, surgical wounds), the elderly, and adults with a history of alcohol abuse or injection drug use also have a higher risk for disease.
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There was an outbreak of 12 cases of this in Seattle a while back. 'Rapidly invasive' is technicalese for 'flesh eating'. I can't readily find a source because of the time that has lapsed but I know it occurred.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Rapidly invasive group A strep can also follow chicken pox.
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Or any open wound...Ginger, that quote only lists chicken pox as an example of things that could cause you to have skin lesions.

Rapidly invasive group A strep can also follow a paper cut. So?

In fact, the last sentence doesn't even say "this disease." It says only "disease."
 
slingblade said:
Or any open wound...Ginger, that quote only lists chicken pox as an example of things that could cause you to have skin lesions.

Rapidly invasive group A strep can also follow a paper cut. So?

In fact, the last sentence doesn't even say "this disease." It says only "disease."
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There is a significant risk from varicella lesions in particular.

NYC Department of Health
Currently, chickenpox is a common preceding illness among children with invasive Group A Streptococcal disease.
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Outbreak of Invasive Group A Streptococcus Associated with Varicella in a Childcare Center -- Boston, Massachusetts, 1997
Clusters of invasive GAS infection previously had not been reported among children in school or childcare centers (CCCs). However, on February 13, 1997, the Boston Public Health Commission received reports of cases of concurrent invasive GAS and varicella infection among two of 14 children in the same CCC classroom.
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The 12 cases in Seattle were not from a related outbreak but did have the disease around the same time.

Lesson of the Week: Potentially lethal bacterial infection associated with varicella zoster virus
Indeed, mild secondary bacterial infection of the skin, of little clinical importance, is the most common complication of varicella virus infection.1 2 There has been a recent increase in reports of serious bacterial infections, however, both during or after chickenpox.
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slingblade said:
yeah, but the paragraph you quoted...you know what, never mind.
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I was just trying to add information, Sling. I wasn't complaining that you didn't see it in the first link I cited. I know from my professional experience there is a specific issue with the pox virus and deadly secondary bacterial infections. It's fine you asked for more evidence.
 
dirtywick said:
You can still get shingles from the vaccine also. But not dealing with chicken pox and having the risk of shingles is better than having the same risk but also going through the full blown virus.
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Do you have a source for that information?
 
This is illegal, right? The police will be busting down the doors of the people running this nonsense because they're endangering children's lives?

First sentence: "not only unsafe but illegal." Oh good. Now, how about those arrests?
 
Science Based Medicine posted about this yesterday. Sickening. Worse is this:

But it’s worse than that. Near the end of the report from the local CBS affiliate above, there is a post from a parent looking for measles, which is much more dangerous than chickenpox. Her reason? This:

Dad is threatening to take it to court and getting exposed is the only way not to get the vaccine without possibly losing custody.
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Sometimes there aren't enough face-palms.

I am old enough that I remember REAL "chickenpox parties" in the 60's. Yes, if someone in the neighborhood caught one of the "standard childhood diseases" your Mom--this was when Moms were at home--would send you to visit that kid. And the sick kids would rotate between houses as a bunch of us would be in the milder, recovery phases at the same time.

The thing is, once you were over, say, four then your likely course of the disease was milder (or that was the folk wisdom, anyway) than if you caught it as a teenager. So it was in your kid's best interest to catch these things sooner. I had mumps, chicken pox, and possibly the "German Measles" (rubella) before I was in 4th grade, and I caught every one of them from a kid we went to visit on purpose.

So these idiots--and I use the term with full intent--are basically replaying the method used when we HAD NO VACCINES. Because somehow, in their myth-filled minds, it is better to expose your child to a wild disease, with full strength and of unknown severity of results, than to have your child's immune system face the SAME ORGANISM that has been weakened or killed. Because....???

Vaccines do sometimes have side-effects, and they sometimes are severe. However, the only way a vaccine can be approved is if the bad outcomes of the vaccine are much lesser, and much rarer, than bad outcomes of the disease itself!

Those poor children...
 
dirtywick said:
Here's one:

http://www.nfid.org/pdf/factsheets/varicellaadult.pdf

Of course much of what I've read suggests it makes shingles less common because the virus is attenuated, but it's still there and can still occur. Nice thing is that there's also a vaccine for shingles.
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Well, I still don't see where it says that the vaccine can cause shingles (though I suppose we'll find out when the the bulk of children who received the vaccination have reached a shingle-prone age). I suppose, as you implied above, the smartest thing to do is to get the shingles vax as well. :)

When I got it, my younger brother and sister also got it. There were three of us sick at once. I just remember itching like crazy - and being told not to scratch.
 
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