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Power cords improve audio performance!

This debate is nothing compared to the disputation over software guitar/bass amplifier simulators versus hardware amp sims versus original hardware... whuff.

(I use IK Multimedia's AmpliTube 2. Don't get me started on dongles.)
 
Don't forget the pads you put under the equipment. :rolleyes:

PAUL

:) :) :)
 
My new mic has a built-in 10dB pad and a low-cut filter, with switch for selecting one or neither. *isproud*
 
ceptimus said:
I just made the mistake of purchasing an audio magazine.

Inside, there is a review of different audio power cords. These just take mains electricity from the socket on the wall the three feet or so to the connector on the back of the amplifier. The prices range from $120 to $220, with the most expensive cord coming out the winner:

I wonder how the audiophiles that believe this bs think the electricity travels for the many miles between the generators and their house wall socket? How do they believe that the super expensive cable that carries the power for the last three feet can make such an enormous difference?
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I've got a friend that, although normally sane and rational, swears blind that power cords make a difference to a stereo. Haven't spoken to him in a while, but last time I did, he was saving up for a new power cord, costing 150gbp. I tried to make him see reason, but he adamantly refused to be persuaded (and proclaimed he'd even done a double-blind test).

Strange thing is that he knew all the audiophile crap was bunk, but for some reason believed the power cord actually made a difference.
 
Yelper said:
I've got a friend that, although normally sane and rational, swears blind that power cords make a difference to a stereo. Haven't spoken to him in a while, but last time I did, he was saving up for a new power cord, costing 150gbp. I tried to make him see reason, but he adamantly refused to be persuaded (and proclaimed he'd even done a double-blind test).

Strange thing is that he knew all the audiophile crap was bunk, but for some reason believed the power cord actually made a difference.
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Do you think your friend would be up for a bet?

"If you can tell the difference between your £150 cable and the one that came with the unit in 9 out of 10 times in a double-blind ABX-trial, I will buy it for you and sign an affidavit about your supernatural powers. If not, return it to the shop, give me the money for it, and learn a lesson."

There's no rule that says you can't use your skepticism for personal gain. :cool:
 
Something I haven't seen mentioned here is the simple fact that a lot of audio gear (most consumer gear but quite a lot of pro stuff as well) is incredibly badly designed. Woos doing engineering basically.

Especially the fancier stuff is badly affected. I've tested devices with such high output impedance that cables made a *measurable* difference. Vacuum tube equipment, usually. Most fancy cables are incorrectly constructed and make very good radio antennae. I'm talking of unshielded cables of the k*mber persuasion and "pseudo balanced" cables with rca plugs on either end but the shield connected at one end only.
To tap into the vibration and microphonics lore, the fascination for silver and teflon produces cables that are actually worse than anything else in this respect. In combination with the aforementioned high impedance connections such cables actually pick up acoustic noise. This is not a joke: to anyone who wishes to stop over here I'll do a demo with an audiophile cable in a sensitive input producing a larsen effect with a connected loudspeaker.
Hence my standard quip that "I've never heard an unusually good cable but boy have I heard some bad ones." But of course, when by chance those guys hear a real difference, they'll proclaim it's better.
While we're on the RFI front I've seen CD players and power amplifiers that knock out every radio receiver in the vicinity. To add insult to injury, most gear is awfully sensitive to radio interference. The result is that some gear effectively performs better when the last few metres of mains cable are shielded.

In other words, quite a few of claims of perceived differences might actually be grounded in some reality. You can design equipment that's so bad that mains and interconnect cables etc make an actual difference. Likewise you can make cables that are so bloody faulty that they'll affect nearly any type of equipment. The only thing that tells you is that indeed, something is wrong.

I can't honestly say that the pro audio world is free of woo. Live sound is mostly ok, but I've been to mastering studios that were entirely wired using unbalanced connections (the type used in home equipment), "to make the signal path simpler". Well, the best way of inviting rubbish into your audio is an unbalanced connection. Of course, then it's back to listening to problems that shouldn't have been there to begin with. Sorry for the rant. Must've had a bad drink.
 
and, of course, if audio equipment is easily messed up by interference/the 'wrong' cable/CDs that aren't quite clean...etc...this is seen as a sign of how high end and sensitive it is :)
 
Bruno Putzeys said:
Something I haven't seen mentioned here is the simple fact that a lot of audio gear (most consumer gear but quite a lot of pro stuff as well) is incredibly badly designed. Woos doing engineering basically.

Especially the fancier stuff is badly affected...

...

Sorry for the rant. Must've had a bad drink.
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Point fingers! Name names! If you need to, have a drink first. I am not buying electronics inspired by Atlantis technology, so please provide some facts and blatant accusations.

(My KEF active subwoofer just started picking up 50 Hz hum even without the input connected. Hope that's not one of them.)
 
Not publicly, dear. I make money helping these people build better stuff, and shaming them in public is not a way of attracting customers.
 
Bruno Putzeys said:
Something I haven't seen mentioned here is the simple fact that a lot of audio gear (most consumer gear but quite a lot of pro stuff as well) is incredibly badly designed. Woos doing engineering basically.
Click to expand...
Here is an interesting article about power rating of amplifiers. It's mentioned in the article that some high end or exotic equipment doesn't even have proper safety ratings. Sometimes it may be due to not getting them but there is the possibility that some equipment couldn't get it.

To me, that really raises the possibilty of some exotic equipment being poorly designed.
 
I want to scream and kill things. I went up to mountains in Pa. to see a friend who is an audiophile. While I was up there, (you will not believe this) he got a package from some company for him to test (here it comes) and in it was Power Cables, a silver one no less. After he told me he had to brake them in for 40 hours, I loss it. There is more, but I didn’t kill him. He told me I didn’t understand the science behind it all, well of course he is the one who believes in the false science feed to him by to audiophile world.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Screaming or killing isn't a rational reaction either :P. One strategy which I'm considering using in such cases is the following:
1) Invite the person to do a blind test (a proper one with multiple rounds so you can compare the score with pure luck) to compare his power cable with a standard one. If he takes the test, make note of how he tries to weasle his way out of the inevitable conclusion. If he refuses to take the test, note down the excuses he makes.
2) Point him towards Randi's comments on dowsers and their post-test excuses. With a bit of luck the scales will fall off.
 
Oh, you poor, dear, innocent person. Don’t you know the mind of these audiophiles, do a double blind test, no way will they. They can hear it with their ears and double blind tests are only ways a hide the truth that they hold so dear.

If I tell him about Randi, (who I know), my friend just writes him off as a conman, and the million dollars has a fraud.

No, killing is the only way.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
I don't think you know me very well. I'm a hard-boiled audiophile. I call myself that because I thoroughly enjoy listening to high-quality reproduced music in the privacy of the home, not because I listen to mains cables (which obviously I don't).

However, until a few years ago I've been knee-deep into stuff like cable woo (line level and speaker cables) and valve amplifiers. I was also very religious. At some point I started to question my religious beliefs seriously. I subsequently fell off religion followed by residual beliefs in any other paranormal concept. Really I have no idea how it was possible for me to come off religion on my own while others just keep going in circles "searching for the truth". I sometimes speculate that being autistic and thus having to rely on conscious thought for nearly everything I do might have a part in it.

Anyhow it became inevitable that my reasons for believing in audio-woo were astoundingly similar to the manner in which paranormal woo was "defended". So I was forced to clean up those beliefs too. The best way to do so is to do properly controlled experiments and accept them. Or as I explained in http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html#i9 to keep one's mind open to see yourself in the act of being utterly fooled. To be honest, events such as the latter are even more convincing than the db trials, as you can always (in good cognitive-dissonance fashion) try to weasel your way out by questioning the validity of the test.

Since that time I spend much more time measuring the circuits that I develop, only doing quick listening tests at the end of the process to make sure that my objective (measurable) design goals were correctly chosen (and in all fairness just to enjoy the fruits of a work well done).

What's more remarkable is that since then I'm getting much more critical acclaim for my designs than before, lots of it from the people who "trust their ears only" and from magazines who themselves are thoroughly into audio religion.

But all this to say that in order to understand what makes a religious audiophile tick I only have to travel a few years back in time. The only thing I don't know is how I can use this experience to get other people to take the same step.
 
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Religion, paranormal, and audio woo seem to go hand in hand. Audiophile woo believers are most likely to believe in the religion and paranormal along with there beloved flying saucers (I do not use the UFO term here because if you identified it has a flying saucer then it is no longer an Unidentified Flying Object).

Has for changing wire etc always sounding better, it does not for my audiophile friend. But I am very sure that is does sound the way he expects it to because nothing he uses is not seen by him.

Remember the GREEN MARKER on the edge of the CD. Wellllll, my friend (vinyl and tube and god believer person) came over my house with a CD with, oh noooooo, the GREEN MARKER edge. Well he knew that I have the same CD, and here we go, the NON-BLIND test. Well he and my son (about 12 at the time, now 29) agreed that the GREEN WINNE sounded better. Welllll, I started to stand in front of the player and when he said change, I went thru the motions and didn't. They still heard a different, until I showed them the truth that it wasn’t the one they thought it was. We did this several times, and more and more mistakes were done by them. Why, because there was no difference, NOOOOO my friend said it was because their ears were getting tired, and not that they were wrong. Kill, kill, kill.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
I was hoping those recording engineers would have the guts to post A-B clips with the different power cables, but no such luck. Fortunately, I haven't run across engineers like this here in Southern California. It was nice to see a lot of skeptical audio engineers. Maybe sound engineers are more aware of their ability to fool themselves. I know I've tricked myself into hearing changes in sound when adjusting equipment that I later find was not hooked up in the first place! I know I can fool myself into hearing things that won't show up in A/B testing, but no audiophile will ever admit to that.

A friend of mine teaches music production at Peirce College in the valley. He and his students have recorded and mixed quite a number of projects:

http://web.mac.com/philbeau1/iWeb/p3400/Welcome.html

Maybe I should talk to him about giving some information on audio pseudoscience to his students. This guy did have an electrican come to his studio and check out the power, and even though the power looked fine, he's installing power conditioning equipment. It costs about $1400 for a system that can power all of his studio equipment and it includes battery backup. Now that everything is being recorded to a hard drive so power failures are potentially more destructive than in the days of multitrack tapes. Other studios in L.A. are using these power conditioners/battery backup systems and although there are rumors of improved audio performance, the main reason for installing the equpiment is to prevent loss of data and studio time.
 
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