Positive vs. Negative Atheism

[Brian-M]

1. A comparison of Jesus and Muhammad

If it comes down to Jesus and Muhammad, I'm thinking Muhammad Ali would win by a KO in the first round.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Yes, unfortunately, “obsessive fanaticism” occurs on both ends of the belief spectrum. The following are eight good examples for the non-belief, fanatical-fringe side (note the highlighted):

And this:

And this:

And this:

And this:

And this:

And this:

And this:

So for 'non-belief fanaticism' you have posts that you consider flawed, unpleasant, uninformed, and/or unreasonable.

And for 'belief fanaticism' we have sectarian violence and terrorism in the name of religion among both Christians and Muslims.

One of these things is not like the others.

 

[Leumas]

So for 'non-belief fanaticism' you have posts that you consider flawed, unpleasant, uninformed, and/or unreasonable.

And for 'belief fanaticism' we have sectarian violence and terrorism in the name of religion among both Christians and Muslims.

One of these things is not like the others.

Despite those posts being true within the framework of the biblical fables and myths.

In other words according to this illogic, words that point out truths and facts are just as heinous (if not more so) as killing, political plotting to legalize bigotry and discrimination and to hinder progress and knowledge and to take away the freedoms of citizens on top of political machinations in support of wars and blood shedding.

The most feared and despised enemy of religions and their peddlers has always been knowledge and REASON.

 

[RickM]

Now you "think" it is bordering on obsessive compulsive to have repeated the list in so many posts. However, what you have failed to consider is that those posts have been made in 7 different threads.... here is the list

1. A comparison of Jesus and Muhammad
2. Why not war against Islam?
3. Is YHWH an Evil god?
4. Assuming God Exists, Could an Omnipotent God
5. The plans of God
6. Debunking Noah, and I need some help
7. Hammurabi, who feared Marduk..." and the fear of God

Although you have quoted me 8 times one was a repeat of one of the quotes and the 8th one is wrongly linked.

Here's #8: [URL="http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7467963#post7467963"]Arguments, The Bible, and Smart Apologists[/URL], post# 58.

If you think giving a list of YHWH's attributes in 7 different threads that discuss YHWH (a.k.a Jesus a.k.a. Allah) directly is approaching on obsessive compulsive then, well, excuse me if I question your credential as a failed psychology student let alone as unqualified to make a diagnosis.

Actually, I was a "successful" psychology student!

Also you seem to think that cutting and pasting good ideas so as not to have to reinvent the wheel is something undesirable....well I know that I, for one, am not going to give you a job as a programmer or as a writer let alone as a secretary

Thanks for the job tips, but I've already achieved my financial goals in life. (note extra large smile )

I'll be back later to give you a good night kiss.

 

[Navigator]

Can you stop chucking all sorts of red herrings all over the place and answer the questions I posed to you below

1: You keep asserting that you are an atheist but you're still in search for other "ideas of god(s)" that might be true as opposed to the false "ideas of god(s)" that you assert you are an atheist towards.

2: Can you for instance explain how you have become an atheist in regards to Jesus or Allah or YHWH?

3: a:Have you studied them in depth and
b:did you read their scriptures and
c:have you read books written by apologists for them?

4: How do you know Jesus and/or Allah and/or YHWH are not the "right ideas of gods"? You, by your own admittance have but the slightest knowledge of them.

1: Are we not all born atheists? Are we not all born without any knowledge? Are we not all within a universe which hold no answer to why it or we exist?
Why would I not be interested in ideas of god(s).

Why are you only interested in one idea of a god and why only the dark aspects of that idea of god?

Are you an 'anti-theist' - specifically anti-that idea of god specifically because of the dark aspects?

2: I was born an atheist. I have explained already but you are too blind in your obsessive compulsion to focus on a small aspect of a larger thing.

They are myths. Created through the natural evolution of a parent-less child of the universe which I simply refer to altogether as the human consciousness.

I don't believe they are literal. They are products of the sub conscious of the human consciousness - the overall consciousness of humanity.

They are projections of a tough purposeful collective entity called 'humanity'. They are not all dark or all light. all angel or all demon.

Those projection are a creation of a child who had need of a parent.

They are not the child's only projections regarding ideas of god(s).

2: a: Yes. b: some c: reminds me of a serendipitous event where I once was in a christian bookshop with a friend and (long story short) I said to him that "all these book for sale on the shelf are not needed. Only the Bible is needed" and exactly as I said this, a whole row of 'how to' books suddenly fell of the shelves. (We were both quite impressed by that. ) But anyhoo - at the time I was something of a christian but more on my way out than in. I was there to show my friend that I was going to try and get a bible for him for free. (without - you know - stealing it).

4: They are the right ideas. The ideas have been fashioned through the invention of the institute of organised religion, so they are not completely the right idea but one can still get the gist. They are not the only ones which are right ideas of god(s). A far better overall picture can be had when examining the other known ideas of gods(s). In reality, because the parent-less child, humanity, has no choice but to make things up as it goes along, all its ideas are the right ones. Who is to tell it otherwise? It evolves though, even that aspects of its self fall behind and stop growing. Often because they are preoccupied with parts of it rather than it wholeness, like you are.

You are obviously someone who presents as if you despise human atrocity - human inhumanity against humans...but perhaps only in the name of god(s)? You do not say whether you agree with evil things done in the name of politics or created through the scientific process.

 

[RickM]

Hey Leumas,

No hard feelings, but please take a step back and contemplate some of the things you write. I think “excessive” is probably the best fit. Also, give some thought to the second quotation in my signature line below. It’s the feelings and sentiments behind the words that I look for. This tells the real story of a person.

 

[phiwum]

If it comes down to Jesus and Muhammad, I'm thinking Muhammad Ali would win by a KO in the first round.

To be fair, Jesus's strategy of turning the other cheek isn't really optimal for boxing.

 

[calebprime]

To be fair, Jesus's strategy of turning the other cheek isn't really optimal for boxing.

It worked for Ali in The Rumble in the Jungle against George Foreman. Rope-a-dope is essentially turning the other cheek until your opponent is worn out from hitting you.

Ok. Not really.

 

[Leumas]

Hey Leumas,

No hard feelings, but please take a step back and contemplate some of the things you write. I think “excessive” is probably the best fit. Also, give some thought to the second quotation in my signature line below. It’s the feelings and sentiments behind the words that I look for. This tells the real story of a person.

Here is a founding father of your country over whom you would have preferred Netanyahu and whose writings you might have likewise deemed "excessive".

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." — Thomas Paine​

Here is another President of your country whom you would have thought less capable than Netanyahu and whom you might have also labeled as "obsessive compulsive".

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes." — Thomas Jefferson​

What do you call a creature that despite being shooed off time and again still persists in buzzing about looking for good substance to land upon thus spoiling it with its filthy spit and disgusting drool?

If I may rephrase Mark Twain just a slight bit

"Nothing seems to please a Gadfly so much as to be mistaken for a currant, and if it can be baked in a cake and palmed off on the unwary, it dies happy." — Mark Twain​

 

[Leumas]

To be fair, Jesus's strategy of turning the other cheek isn't really optimal for boxing.

But he still might win if he pulls off the trick he did with the poor fig tree he cursed.

Or he could exorcise a legion of demons and cause them to enter his opponents and cause them to plummet off cliffs like he did to the poor herd of swine.

 

[Leumas]

1: Are we not all born atheists?

So are you saying you are still in the same mindset as when you were first born?

Are we not all born without any knowledge?

Is this why you keep saying that you believe in nothing... because you have not managed to acquire any additional knowledge since you were born?

Are we not all within a universe which hold no answer to why it or we exist?
Why would I not be interested in ideas of god(s).
....
[snipped a whole lot of boring

...bored with the whole blah blah...

...]

And how does all the above "boring blah blah" red herrings answer the questions below?

The topic is about strong atheism vs. weak atheism.

You keep asserting that you are an atheist but you're still in search for other "ideas of god(s)" that might be true as opposed to the false "ideas of god(s)" that you assert you are an atheist towards.

Can you for instance explain how you have become an atheist in regards to Jesus or Allah or YHWH?

Have you studied them in depth and did you read their scriptures and have you read books written by apologists for them?

....
I am not a scholar on these three particular ideas but I do know that the Christian idea was to love one another. Is there any reference to killing others in the Jewish idea? I am reminded of the 10 commandments. Are those from the Jewish book?
I seem to remember that there was a commandment not to kill.
Would it be to presimptious of me to say that I bet there is refferrence to loving one another in the Koran.
....

How could you by any reasoned logic have arrived at the a-Jesus and a-YHWH and a-Allah "ideas of god" when as evinced by your very own words you know hardly anything about them?

You assert that you are an unbeliever in anything and not even in not believing nor in believing....you believe nothing.

But then we read that you know no more than an inkling about THREE ideas of gods followed by over 5 BILLION PEOPLE and yet you declare yourself as an atheist as far as they are concerned.

How do you know Jesus and/or Allah and/or YHWH are not the "right ideas of gods"? You, by your own admittance have but the slightest knowledge of them.

 

[Leumas]

...
In other words according to this illogic, words that point out truths and facts are just as heinous (if not more so) as killing, political plotting to legalize bigotry and discrimination and to hinder progress and knowledge and to take away the freedoms of citizens on top of political machinations in support of wars and blood shedding.

The most feared and despised enemy of religions and their peddlers has always been knowledge and REASON.

From Here

Will Californians Vote On Executing Gays and Lesbians?​

....
Harris added that if the court refuses to rule in her favor, "my office will be forced to issue a title and summary for a proposal that seeks to legalize discrimination and vigilantism.”
....​

 

[I Am The Scum]

You are literally talking to yourself at this point. Give it a rest.

 

[Leumas]

You are literally talking to yourself at this point. Give it a rest.

Some of my favorite and most epiphanic conversations have been with myself ..... it is much like another activity that can be quite satisfyingly "epiphanic" too, despite (or perhaps because of) it being by oneself.

Seriously though.... I came across that article early this morning and found it quite interesting in light of the post I made just two days earlier.

 

[Navigator]

So are you saying you are still in the same mindset as when you were first born?

I naturally learned beliefs as part of the process of being influenced by those who had themselves been influenced...
So for me it is more of a reverting back to the non believing that, yes, I was born with, but of course with the additional experience of knowing what it is like to be influenced by those with beliefs and adopting those beliefs I was most influenced by.

Is this why you keep saying that you believe in nothing... because you have not managed to acquire any additional knowledge since you were born?

I find your question to be ignorant of what I have been sharing.

And how does all the above "boring blah blah" red herrings answer the questions below?

For you it doesn't, but that has more to do with you own position and the beliefs that position holds on to, than it does with me not having answered your questions.

So how about you actually answer my questions.

Even this simple question should be easy enough for you to answer.

"Q: Do you consider yourself to be 'antitheist'?"