Pope rejects Dublin bishops' resignations

"I lied, and I enabled horrific transgressions to occur. I lied to those seeking legitimate redress for those transgressions, and knowingly endangered others in an attempt to mitigate damage to the reputation of the church. For these reasons, I must tender my resignation."

"You don't seem to understand, it is those exact qualities that make you indispensible to this orginization. You have a good shot at Cardinal, or even Pope, with the loyalty and obedience you have shown. Resignation denied."


I was actually seriously thinking about the RCC scandals today, and I wonder why the hell the US doesn't just declare war on Vatican City. We could just take it, (I'm fairly sure the Swiss Guard wouldn't put up a fight), arrest all the pedophiles and abetters of pedophiles inside, and get a nice bit of cash to help with the recession.
 
Filippo Lippi said:
You could offer up some evidence for your theory about why these perverters of justice are kept on in their cushy positions.
Click to expand...

I am not claiming they are being kept in their cushy positions, they are being stopped from leaving the Church. They are only auxillery Bishops anyway - bench warmers, so their lifestyle would not be that extravegant to begin with
 
autumn1971 said:
"I lied, and I enabled horrific transgressions to occur. I lied to those seeking legitimate redress for those transgressions, and knowingly endangered others in an attempt to mitigate damage to the reputation of the church. For these reasons, I must tender my resignation."

"You don't seem to understand, it is those exact qualities that make you indispensible to this orginization. You have a good shot at Cardinal, or even Pope, with the loyalty and obedience you have shown. Resignation denied."


I was actually seriously thinking about the RCC scandals today, and I wonder why the hell the US doesn't just declare war on Vatican City. We could just take it, (I'm fairly sure the Swiss Guard wouldn't put up a fight), arrest all the pedophiles and abetters of pedophiles inside, and get a nice bit of cash to help with the recession.
Click to expand...

You dont know much about the Swiss Guard do you
 
MG1962 said:
That the Church now makes an effort to keep an eye on these people?....then yes
Click to expand...

All the various reports and inquiries show that has not been the RCC's SOP. The RCC's "SOP" was to move people about and not inform their superiors in the new area why they had been moved or indeed mention that they shouldn't be allowed to work with children and so on.
 
A couple of possibilities...

One, they could have put in the resignations knowing he wouldn't accept them. A sort of PR exercise.

Or, if they were really serious, they could send him a Declaration of Defection, pack a suitcase, walk out of their palaces into the real world and start looking for a proper job. Unless the Vatican is into kidnapping, there's not much it could do about that.
 
autumn1971 said:
I was actually seriously thinking about the RCC scandals today, and I wonder why the hell the US doesn't just declare war on Vatican City.
Click to expand...

Ummm... If I recall correctly, Bush gave the pope protection from prosecution on this matter. You think he'll go to war with him? :confused:
 
Aitch said:
A couple of possibilities...

One, they could have put in the resignations knowing he wouldn't accept them. A sort of PR exercise.

Or, if they were really serious, they could send him a Declaration of Defection, pack a suitcase, walk out of their palaces into the real world and start looking for a proper job. Unless the Vatican is into kidnapping, there's not much it could do about that.
Click to expand...

I wonder what the career prospects of former RCC bishops are in Dublin? I suppose they would be over 50 as well, so that would be another handicap.
 
rjh01 said:
I wonder what the career prospects of former RCC bishops are in Dublin? I suppose they would be over 50 as well, so that would be another handicap.
Click to expand...

Road-sweeper? Office worker? Farm hand? Does it matter if they are really serious?
 
MG1962 said:
I am not claiming they are being kept in their cushy positions, they are being stopped from leaving the Church. They are only auxillery Bishops anyway - bench warmers, so their lifestyle would not be that extravegant to begin with
Click to expand...


No. Unless the Vatican wishes to add a bit of slavery to it's rap sheet.


If these people had an ounce of self respect or feelings of empathy / guilt they would have given the Pope no option but to "accept" the resignations. Playing to the crowd thats all.
 
MG1962 said:
Why do you assume they are being looked after, usually it is the opposite
Click to expand...

Sorry for having used slightly slangy terms. By "looked after," I meant...

MG1962 said:
Not really - The Church wants to keep control of these guys. The resign, fade into obsucrity....This way the Church controls their actions and keeps them close

It is pretty much SOP for potential sex offending clergy in the Catholic Church world wide.
Click to expand...

and

That the Church now makes an effort to keep an eye on these people?....then yes
Click to expand...


Again... Why does the church need to "keep control of" or "keep an eye on" these disgraced bishops? Are you confusing them with the abusive priests that they enabled?
 
Last edited:
Darat said:
And if the RCC had an ounce of decency then it would have accepted their resignations.
Click to expand...

I am not sure I am following this thinking. Allowing them to leave the Church allows them a level of personal freedom they have not had since taking their vows. They can earn income, have personal relationships, travel as they choose etc etc.

Members of the clergy who are disgraced, not just sex abuse, but fraud, theft etc etc, are often cloisterd. Effectively they live the life of a Monk, the Church will often enforce pennance on these people.

That pennance can be as simply as making them dig a hole, fill it in, dig it again, all the while reflecting on the situation that lead them to this place

This is why I am arguing that allowing these men to resign is the same as letting them off the hook
 
I'd imagine the Vatican wants to play it as the Bishops clearly understand how they were wrong and disgraced the church, but the Pope forgives them for their guilt is punishment enough for these children of god. But that's just a guess.
 
MG1962 said:
I am not sure I am following this thinking. Allowing them to leave the Church allows them a level of personal freedom they have not had since taking their vows. They can earn income, have personal relationships, travel as they choose etc etc.

Members of the clergy who are disgraced, not just sex abuse, but fraud, theft etc etc, are often cloisterd. Effectively they live the life of a Monk, the Church will often enforce pennance on these people.

That pennance can be as simply as making them dig a hole, fill it in, dig it again, all the while reflecting on the situation that lead them to this place
Click to expand...

Is that really a punishment when there is no mandatory compulsion for the offender to under go the punishment? If they would rather do that than walk out of the church you have to wonder what is the worse case scenario for the people being punished.

This is why I am arguing that allowing these men to resign is the same as letting them off the hook
Click to expand...

Its not a case of allowing them to resign unless the Church in Ireland can basically enslave their staff. They are free to walk at any point yet don't - if it's punishment you're after letting them do what they want isn't the answer.

I'd hazard a guess booting a 50 year old bloke smeared by public scandal with few transferable skills in the outside world may be a tad more of a hardship than keeping them in house.
 
MG1962 said:
I am not sure I am following this thinking. Allowing them to leave the Church allows them a level of personal freedom they have not had since taking their vows. They can earn income, have personal relationships, travel as they choose etc etc.
...
Click to expand...


So what? The harm they did as bishops was that they had responsibility for certain employees who had access to and abused children who had been trusted to the church (in schools, as alter boys, etc), and then didn't do the right thing by way of stopping that abuse and removing the offenders.

Is there a danger that these bishops will ever find themselves in a similar situation if let loose? They don't need to be punished with lack of personal freedom. They need to be separated from employment in the church. The church ought to be able to say -- those guys were extremely derelict in their duties, with harmful consequence, and they don't work here anymore.

Do you have information that these bishops are being cloistered as punishment?

The church doesn't need to control them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom