POPCORN! Gravy is on...! :D

[LashL]

Welcome to the forum, Jan Wonderful to see another Torontonian here!

 

[Brainster]

Here's a review from the former child prodigy himself, Rick Siegel (9-11 Eyewitness). I'd say he's mostly on the money regarding style points, mostly off base on substance:

Dylan Avery finally wakes up from a comatose meditation that has him staring past to the future and goes on to comment about the film he made ONE year ago:

“We made that film essentially as a bunch a kids. That’s, that’s the reality of the situation. We’re a bunch of kids tackling a subject far beyond the scope of any one documentary. I will be the first to admit our film definitely contained errors, it still does contain some dubious claims, and it definitely does come to some conclusions that are not 100 percent backed up by the facts.”

YEOWWW! WOW! Dylan is turning over and what is happening? The next statement by Ronald Wieck allows one a glimpse into the whole reason this interview is taking place.

Wieck tells them:
“I want you to have the opportunity to correct the record, you know, anything that you feel that ahh perhaps, you’d rethink that perhaps you don’t want to commit yourself to any longer? This is a good time to bring that out.

Well, it looks like when the prosecutor has worked out a deal and you have to now stand before the court and lie so you can “cop a plea”.

There are some points that will have you chortling (like the continuing discussion of Dylan's zombie-like performance) and others that will draw a snort (like the comments that Mark is cointelpro).

 

[gumboot]

There are some points that will have you chortling (like the continuing discussion of Dylan's zombie-like performance) and others that will draw a snort (like the comments that Mark is cointelpro).

I like how he thinks a layman's inability to get a hold of a passenger manifest is censorship.

-Gumboot

 

[JamesB]

I like how he thinks a layman's inability to get a hold of a passenger manifest is censorship.

-Gumboot

Wow, I am even more impressed with Gravy now. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such power.

This interview is to allow you to hear the government story by a slick professional, true cointelpro, Roberts. Wieck understands his job and followed his instructions. Bringing home the confusion on the Internet and the importance of the illusion of the Arab terrorist. A real move the powers are pushing and sort of giving up on the invisible enemy for a bit. Confusion on the Internet, the war on the Internet and the billion dollars budget to fight it. Where is it going? You are seeing it right there.

If this is part of a billion dollar budget to fight a war on the Internet, can I at least get the government to pay my DSL bill? A new laptop would be nice too. And one of those 22 inch widscreen LCD monitors I saw at CompUSA...

 

[Karl Johannes]

i was just watching the hardfire version and i notice gravy mentioned he was going to put some videos up? any news on that?

 

[pomeroo]

I've sent e-mail invitations to Webster Tarpley and Kevin Barrett. No response as yet, but I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[Oliver]

I've sent e-mail invitations to Webster Tarpley and Kevin Barrett. No response as yet, but I'll keep everyone posted.

I guess Kevin Barrett is not very happy with the media
since yesterday. Fetzer, Alex Jones and the other Jones
would be great - especially bigmouth Alex Jones.

ETA:

Bwhaaa: Gravy vs Alex Jones - that would be a dream
to see that under your calm moderation, Ronald. But
i guess Alex has not the Balls to agree to such a
discussion again.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

This interview is to allow you to hear the government story by a slick professional, true cointelpro, Roberts.

Or enjoy a glimpse at the powers of practiced intellect and doing one's homework.

Every once in a while I come across someone attempting to belittle Gravy by snickering at his profession, little realizing what they're saying (what a surprise!). A very intelligent friend of mine required three attempts at the certfication test to become a NYC tour guide. Gravy holds the top score.

What does this suggest? To be conversant with the minutiae of such a large, complex, and relatively old city means you have to have studied and retained an enormous amount. It means you are a historian.

Sept. 11 presents us with more historical information. Andi it's no surprise Gravy is acing this test as well.

 

[JamesB]

Or enjoy a glimpse at the powers of practiced intellect and doing one's homework.

Every once in a while I come across someone attempting to belittle Gravy by snickering at his profession, little realizing what they're saying (what a surprise!). A very intelligent friend of mine required three attempts at the certfication test to become a NYC tour guide. Gravy holds the top score.

What does this suggest? To be conversant with the minutiae of such a large, complex, and relatively old city means you have to have studied and retained an enormous amount. It means you are a historian.

Sept. 11 presents us with more historical information. Andi it's no surprise Gravy is acing this test as well.

You need to pass a test to be a tour guide in NYC? Wow, you guys are heavily regulated there.

My wife said she wants to travel to NYC. I responded that we needed to take a tour with the Great Gravy. She just kind of scrunched up her eyes, looked at me and said, "What is Gravy? I think you spend too much time on the Internet".

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Or enjoy a glimpse at the powers of practiced intellect and doing one's homework.

Every once in a while I come across someone attempting to belittle Gravy by snickering at his profession, little realizing what they're saying (what a surprise!). A very intelligent friend of mine required three attempts at the certfication test to become a NYC tour guide. Gravy holds the top score.

What does this suggest? To be conversant with the minutiae of such a large, complex, and relatively old city means you have to have studied and retained an enormous amount. It means you are a historian.

Sept. 11 presents us with more historical information. Andi it's no surprise Gravy is acing this test as well.

Quite.
[anecdote time]
This past summer I was on a architectural tour of Chicago from the Chicago River (boat tour). The tour-guide clearly not only knew an immense amount of information about the city and its history; but also about architecture, architectural history, and was clearly passionate about these topics. Not only did this make for an enthusiastic, interesting tour; but it also made it clear that he was doing this because it was something he enjoyed doing, that not "just anyone" could do it, and that it wasn't some "no-brainer" job any schmo could walk in to and ace in the first week.
[/anecdote time]

 

[juryjone]

Hey Gravy - question.

When you are pressing Bermas for NIST's mechanism of collapse, how come you let off of him and gave him the answer? It was pathetically clear that he didn't know the answer and tried to dodge constantly.

Also, I wish you'd been able to pin them down on names of people they've talked to. The conversation moved on to another topic before they answered. That gave Dylan the opportunity to come back later and say he's talked to "countless" people (easy if you can't count to three).

I really liked the visual aid of the piece of paper doubling for the top of the towers. Made everything really clear.

 

[60hzxtl]

Dylan? Zombie like?


Wieck tells them:
“I want you to have the opportunity to correct the record, you know, anything that you feel that ahh perhaps, you’d rethink that perhaps you don’t want to commit yourself to any longer? This is a good time to bring that out.

Dylan could never do that, that would be a DO-OVER!

 

[Ketyk]

I'm a bit late to this discussion, so I am sorry if this point has already been made.

(Actually I'm also sorry I missed the CT gathering last weekend, but I slept intead.)

In a previous job I was trained to watch body language. So I watched both parts twice, then watched again with the sound off. I drew the conclusion that both "kids" believe what they say, but it's not about the truth or facts, instead it is fun, a game. I have no doubt that they have spent hours working toward their objective, but their objective is not to find the truth, rather it is to prove a point.

In a way I don't blame them, it's a cultural thing. In my day, it was "don't listen to the man, do your own thing." They decided to go in this direction, however misguided. Luckily, or maybe unluckily, todays media is far more open than at any time.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I'm a bit late to this discussion, so I am sorry if this point has already been made.

(Actually I'm also sorry I missed the CT gathering last weekend, but I slept intead.)

In a previous job I was trained to watch body language. So I watched both parts twice, then watched again with the sound off. I drew the conclusion that both "kids" believe what they say, but it's not about the truth or facts, instead it is fun, a game. I have no doubt that they have spent hours working toward their objective, but their objective is not to find the truth, rather it is to prove a point.

In a way I don't blame them, it's a cultural thing. In my day, it was "don't listen to the man, do your own thing." They decided to go in this direction, however misguided. Luckily, or maybe unluckily, todays media is far more open than at any time.

Kind of like http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=19 or http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/ eh?

 

[Spins]

Hey Gravy - question.

When you are pressing Bermas for NIST's mechanism of collapse, how come you let off of him and gave him the answer? It was pathetically clear that he didn't know the answer and tried to dodge constantly.

I thought you completely crushed him in this part of the debate, it was almost embarrassing. Was this a brief moment of mercy/pity?

P.S. You also mentioned that you would have some video of deniers at Ground Zero getting this answer wrong - is it up yet or will you be putting it up at a later time?

I think even if they had a full hour to press Bermas on the collapse mechanism he would have dodged the question, I think there are very few CT'ers that have actually taken the time to read the NIST report, they are too blinkered. The majority of quotes cherry-picked out-of-context from the NIST report in an attempt to try and rubbish their findings seem to be taken from CT websites and are badly referenced, check out Wizards posts on this thread for a classic example.

 

[JamesB]

I think even if they had a full hour to press Bermas on the collapse mechanism he would have dodged the question, I think there are very few CT'ers that have actually taken the time to read the NIST report, they are too blinkered. The majority of quotes cherry-picked out-of-context from the NIST report in an attempt to try and rubbish their findings seem to be taken from CT websites and are badly referenced, check out Wizards posts on this thread for a classic example.

Just like how many CTs have actually read Rebuilding America's Defenses? They all quote that one Pearl Harbor line, but have no clue as to the context. Steven Jones was citing material allegedly from there that were just made up entirely.

 

[The Pig]

The part where Bermas didn't know how NIST believed the collapse started was beautiful. I'm sure he was about to tap-out.

 

[Gravy]

Anyone here of any fencesitters who saw this debate? Or anyone who isn't as familiar with the subject matter? I'd be curious to see their reactions.

Fencesitters don't tend to announce themselves. I do wonder what they would think. Bermas sounds very confident. Too bad nearly everything he says is nonsense. I think the comments above are correct: those shows are for people who are already conversant with the topics. I think a newcomer would be baffled by them.

Hey Gravy - question.

When you are pressing Bermas for NIST's mechanism of collapse, how come you let off of him and gave him the answer? It was pathetically clear that he didn't know the answer and tried to dodge constantly.

I thought you completely crushed him in this part of the debate, it was almost embarrassing. Was this a brief moment of mercy/pity?

No, just a matter of time running out, seeing that Ron wanted to move on, (I had already interrupted him), and wanting to explain NIST's conclusions to the viewing audience. The educational aspect of those shows is important to me. As I mentioned, there are many truthers who don't know what the NIST report says. I didn't want Bermas to leave the audience with the last – and incorrect – word on the subject. Note that Avery didn't pipe up to help out there.

Honestly, I was shocked at the boys' response to that challenge. I thought that in preparation for the show they would have at least read the NIST FAQ.

P.S. You also mentioned that you would have some video of deniers at Ground Zero getting this answer wrong - is it up yet or will you be putting it up at a later time?

Working on it. I'm turning a very short video that I shot into an epic production, as is my way with everything. Kate (aka debunk911myths) also shot quite a bit of video that day. I'm not going to bug her about editing it. These things take time, and I'm very grateful that she came all the way from the DC area to videotape the loons in their natural habitat.

Hey Mark, this is Jan from Toronto. I met you, Chad and Abby the weekend after 9/11/06 and we spent an afternoon destroying the twoofers at GZ.

Hey, Jan, great to hear from you! That was a crazy day we had at GZ...still the noisiest and busiest day there that I've been involved with, besides the week before.

I wish there had been time for you to ask the clueless lads the question I always use to trip up the twoof brigade: WHO should conduct the new investigation twoofers always call for? What engineers and demolition experts would they trust?

Twoofers NEVER give names because if those people were consulted and they didnt' back the kooks...well then what would they do? Call for another investigation?

It's such a good question. The truthers we've asked here haven't had a clue. Nowadays I see more people saying, "the families should do the investigation." Okay.

Step 1: Ask "the families" who among them wants to devote a few years to a new investigation.

Step 2: Give those few amateur sleuths all the money they say they need, subpoena power, and top-secret security clearance.

Step 3: 9/11 was an inside job! The WTC buildings were brought down by controlled demolition! No planes crashed at Shanksville and the Pentagon!

I actually think this is what the truthers believe.

Wow, I am even more impressed with Gravy now. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such power.

My left-handed whammy hex works in mysterious ways. I'm going to leave a comment on Rick Siegel's blog.

Things I have learned about myself in the past few days:

I am "famous for allegedly being the agent in the beginning of the 911 Mysteries video compilation."

I work for Popular Mechanics.

I am a professional debater.

My goal is to prevent families of 9/11 victims from asking questions.

I am part of the government, but at least I earn my paycheck.

Ron Wieck takes orders from me.

I am an old man.

I am working with the Loose Change guys in a disinfo campaign.

I am like a tiger in the jungle (I prefer to think of myself as a hyrax in the scree, or as an uncaged, unbudgeable budgie).

Just freaking hilarious. How sad is it that the conspiracists think that I, who have never in my life participated in a sit-down debate or TV interview, am a "slick professional" who overwhelms the poor inexperienced LTW crew with my government-issue propaganda? LTW brags that they have done hundreds of interviews about 9/11. Bermas has a radio show!

Sorry, deniers, that's how pathetic your "movement" is. You will always be crushed by anyone with average intelligence, an ability to think critically, and a few facts. Get used to it.

In the conspiracist imagination:






In reality:

​

 

[Spins]

OMG, you had a role in the movie Wargames, you government shills get all the best jobs!

 

[uk_dave]

What I find amusing is the number of times I have seen posted on the LC forums a claim that avery and bermas were debating "mark roberts and gravy"..... either the product of an inability to comprehend anything factual or a subtle way of saying that gravy is indeed the shapeshifting reptoid overlord of the entity known as mark roberts.

I suspect that it is the former.....but you never know.....