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Poor Karla!

Darat said:
I'm also perplexed by this idea that a court has said she could still be a danger and yet she is being released?

Why is she being released if she is still considered a danger?

Well, she served her time in prison. The 12-year sentence has been heavily criticised, since it was given in exchange for testifying against her husband. See crime library
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
I guess sometimes systems fail and even courts just have to admit it.

It would obviously be better if the penal system never generated unfortunate results, but it's not obvious to me that it is always best to pretend that the penal system never gets in wrong. Homolka strikes me as an unambiguous case of a person who should be in prison for life if anyone should.

I don't have a problem with that. However, I do have a problem with a court of law sentencing someone without them being guilty of a crime.

Whether Homolka could be dangerous is not for the courts to decide.
 
Homolka's health and safety aren't exactly top of my list of concerns, though people who say they would enjoy ripping her to shreds have more in common with her than they realise.
 
CFLarsen said:
I don't have a problem with that. However, I do have a problem with a court of law sentencing someone without them being guilty of a crime.

Whether Homolka could be dangerous is not for the courts to decide.

It is absolutely for the courts to decide. They use testimony and evidence to decide.

The court believes she poses a risk to to society because she might commit the crime again.

She was only given the 12 years sentence because a lawyer had withheld the video tapes of their crime. At the time she was given the deal it was believed they needed her to convict her husband. With the video tapes they probably would have given her life.

I really can't believe you are defending this trash. Do you every read about anything before you open you mouth?
 
Ian Osborne said:
Homolka's health and safety aren't exactly top of my list of concerns, though people who say they would enjoy ripping her to shreds have more in common with her than they realise.

Ayup.
 
merphie said:
It is absolutely for the courts to decide. They use testimony and evidence to decide.

If there is a question of guilt, yes. If there is a crime committed - or not.

merphie said:
The court believes she poses a risk to to society because she might commit the crime again.

The court has decided that she is dangerous. Is this a crime?

If so, why isn't she behind bars?

merphie said:
I really can't believe you are defending this trash. Do you every read about anything before you open you mouth?

I am not defending her. I specifically said that I did not have a problem with her being in prison for the rest of her life.
 
Couple of things are bugging me about this.

Was reading the Globes article this morning

Globe

And it starts with

MONTREAL -- A Quebec judge yesterday threw out Karla Homolka's bid to keep the media at bay when she's released from jail, saying that the convicted sex killer has to answer to the Canadian public for her horrendous crimes.

"One day or other, after 12 years of detention, Karla Teale will have to face the Canadian public and the Canadian media," rule Mr. Justice Paul-Marcel Bellavance of Superior Court, referring to Ms. Homolka by her adopted name.

If the judge actually said that, then this case is going to be appealled. That's a terrible reason to not allow the ban.

I've yet to see a convincing reason to allow the ban but I think the argument that she continues to be a danger and the public has a right to know her whereabouts (much like a sex offender) is valid and the court made the right decision, but the initial reason given in the article is crap and I suspect it will be appealled.

If I remember correctly, the big complaint is that she made a deal with the prosecution for 12 years to convict the husband, who was thought to be the real threat. Then the video was released showing Karla was just as responsible and just as big a threat as the husband, but the deal had been done.
 
CFLarsen said:
If there is a question of guilt, yes. If there is a crime committed - or not.

She was convicted. She's guilty. There is video tape of the crimes. There's no questin.

The court has decided that she is dangerous. Is this a crime?

No, but like any sex offender she could commit again and therefor poses a risk to the population. The public has a right to be aware of this potential danger.

If so, why isn't she behind bars?

I'm no expert on Canadian law, but I would assume that since she served her sentence the judge can not just add time to her sentence unless she commited a crime.

I am not defending her. I specifically said that I did not have a problem with her being in prison for the rest of her life.

It doesn't sound that way. It could just be typical you.
 
CFLarsen said:
Because she obviously needs it.

There are other options she could pursue, rather than trying to muzzle the press.

She could hire a bodyguard. Lots of people do it. She could move to another country where no one knows her. Lots of people do that too.

Pop stars, dignitaries, etc. are hounded by the media and paparazzi because of the position they have placed themselves in. She, too, has placed herself in the same position through her own voluntary actions. She will have to figure out her own way to handle the limelight.

The police are already following up on those who could be construed as "uttering threats", a criminal offence in Canada, so she is receiving the same protection as any other citizen of the country.
 
Ya see. She uses " "the-go-to-Hell" K.", so she must be dangerous.

Seriously, the Globe sent her letters to hadnwriting experts.

Globe article

Guess that's why she needs to be followed.
 
I hope nobody hurts her.

I think mostly people are afraid of her. She is only 35. She is involved with a murderer. She has demonstrated no remorse for her crimes and, in fact, sees herself as the victim. Her risk of reoffending is high.

At least if the media keep an eye on her, she might behave. Or we might know what to look for and to warn our teenage girls. However, this may be a vain hope. Time will tell.
 
Bearguin said:
Ya see. She uses " "the-go-to-Hell" K.", so she must be dangerous.

Seriously, the Globe sent her letters to hadnwriting experts.

Globe article

Guess that's why she needs to be followed.



How stupid.

And yet, it reflects our obsessive need to understand this woman. She is such a mystery that every little clue (stupid as it may be) is welcomed.
 
Badger said:
There are other options she could pursue, rather than trying to muzzle the press.

In full agreement with your entire post.

It's not my duty as a taxpayer to pay to protect her. The woman is scum, and I really can't see her lasting very long outside of custody.
 
I must be very naive. I think she's going to be fine but will probably reoffend. I can't imagine someone sacrificing their own freedom in order to hurt her. Naive.

On a related note, I heard on the radio that Bernardo is saying, through his lawyer, that he has details of her involvement in other crimes. A woman named Linda Shaw in 1991. I will try to find some details about this.
 
I know there was videotape of the assault of one of Tammi Homolka's friends (similar to the Mahaffy/French/Tammi incidents) and that charges for that crime were never layed. Perhaps this is the same person.

It would be nice if they could pin this crime on Karla, and send her away from all the bad people in society for the rest of her life.
 
merphie said:
She was convicted. She's guilty. There is video tape of the crimes. There's no questin.

I'm not talking about the crime for which she was convicted and for which she has paid for.

merphie said:
No, but like any sex offender she could commit again and therefor poses a risk to the population. The public has a right to be aware of this potential danger.

"No". Should the courts decide who might be dangerous?

merphie said:
I'm no expert on Canadian law, but I would assume that since she served her sentence the judge can not just add time to her sentence unless she commited a crime.

So, he sentences her anyway, without her having committed a crime?

merphie said:
It doesn't sound that way. It could just be typical you.

Spare the personal comments. I have made my point on her committed crimes clear.
 
Jas said:
It's not my duty as a taxpayer to pay to protect her.

Alas, it is. It's society's duty to protect every individual in that society, which is why she was locked away for her crimes in the first place. Now her sentence has ended, she is returned to society, and therefore must enjoy the same protection as everyone else. Unequal methods to achieve that protection reflect the unequal risk she's under.

Of course, it could easily be argued she hasn't paid her debt to society, and that she should've been locked away for far longer, but that's a separate issue.

The woman is scum, and I really can't see her lasting very long outside of custody.

Can't say I'd lose any sleep over her demise, though if she's done in, I hope everyone involved is caught and punished.
 
So her lawyers are trying again.

Ian Osborne said:
Alas, it is. It's society's duty to protect every individual in that society, which is why she was locked away for her crimes in the first place.

I suppose, but I definitely don't agree with it. IMHO, she gave up her right to police protection a long time ago.


Can't say I'd lose any sleep over her demise, though if she's done in, I hope everyone involved is caught and punished.

I would hope that they wouldn't get caught, personally. But vigilanteism is bad and all that.
 
I don't want Homolka harmed. I want her locked up. She's evil, she's destructive, and it's unlikely she'll remain in Canada. I'm willing to bet she winds up in the U.S., and that she re-offends.

And yes, I think it's less likely she'll be harmed if the Press is on her case, and following her every move. If she wanted to live anonymously, too damned bad. She should have thought of that before that first murder.
 
How can a court rule that someone could be dangerous?

By looking at their past behavior. A sadistic murder of teenagers would get you on the "could be dangerous" list rather quick.

This sort of thing is actually rather common. Whether the defendant is likely to continue a life of crime is a common aggrevating circumstance which, quite reasonably, often lead a judge to impose (or a jury to recommend) a heavier sentence, just like the criminals' claim of being reformed is often a mitigating circumstance leading to a lighter sentence.

As to your question, how do we know the defendant is more (or less) likely to commit a future crime? Well, the same way we know whether anybody else is more (or less) likely to do anything in the future: we look at their past and present behavior.

Showing public remorse, cooperating fully with the police, and other things of that nature are evidence one is less likely to repeat the crime; not showing remorse, never apologizing and so on--and, sometimes, the very horror of the crime--is evidence that the criminal is likely to do it again.

I'm not talking about the crime for which she was convicted and for which she has paid for.

The idea that the criminal, once having served one's sentence, had "paid their debt to society" and therefore should not be treated any differently than someone who did not commit a crime in the first place is a case of a metaphor being taken too far.

Criminals do not pay their debt to society by their prison sentence: crime and evil are not a matter of double-entry bookkeeping. A vicious murderer is quite justly shunned and hated because he is a vicious murderer; whether or not he served any time in jail for it is immaterial, and is no reason to hate him less.

The mere fact that one was caught and punished does not raise one's moral status one iota, nor does it give one the slightest reason to expect better treatment than the unpunished murderer from society.

If it is at all possible to "pay one's debt to society" for such a vicious murder, then such payment must be done by changing one's essence--but not being the vicious murderer any more. That must include, first of all, genuine and public remorse; the deliberate and willing seeking of punishment for the crime (a la Raskolnikov in crime and punishment); the offer of restitution and good works to the victims or society; and so on.

If one had done all that, then it might be possible to "pay one's debt" to society and become on morally equal terms with it again, although one can argue that for crimes as horrific as Karla's, it is simply humanely impossibly for any further action to ever "pay her debt". (Similarly, it is hard to imagine what Goering or Himmler, say, could possibly have done after the war to "make up" for their crimes, even if they had felt genuine remorse and desire to do so.)

But Karla had done nothing of the sort (people like her never do). She and her "morally progressive" defenders think that the mere fact that she was punished somehow sets things on equal moral terms again between her and "society", when in reality her punishment makes no moral difference whatsoever to her standing with society. Thinking it does isn't moral "progress"--it's moral imbecility.

I would hope that they (who did her in--Sk.) wouldn't get caught.

But if they won't be caught, how would you know who to congratulate and buy a drink for?
 

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