Poll: Forcing a Religion

[Fnord]

We shouldn't allow them to force their religion on others.

The above quote was taken out of context, but it had me wondering what people think that such force entails. So, I listed 20 possible examples of common Christian behavior, and ask you to check off all of those that you consider "Forceful".

Note that the "Planet-X" option is included.

 

[Nogbad]

None of the above

Having religion forced on you is when other people's religious views impinge on your choices. So not being able to eat a bacon sandwich because it might offend a Muslim or a Jew is having religion forced on you. Having some loons blockading a cinema because they don't like Harry Potter (or whatever) is forcing religion on others ability to go about their legitimate business.

Wearing a cross or a bracelet as a symbol of their own beliefs is a personal choice for them and not anyone else's business. If they want to hand out tracts and are polite to those who say no thanks that is their right to do so. Talking about religion in a non-forced way is not a problem. Most people are content to discuss what they think. Being "witnessed to" is, however, tedious and is more of a rite of passage for the witnesser than of any merit to the poor sod being witnessed to. I would class the last as border line forcing religion - albeit a moderately harmless form.

Attempting to pass religious laws that limit the rights of minorities, such as homosexuals, is forcing religion in an unreasonable manner.

 

[Madalch]

Pushing for laws declaring that stores/bars/etc. must be closed on Sundays, on the grounds that we should be going to church.

Knocking on my door twice a week (and waking up my napping two-year-old) to tell me about the glories of their religion.

Pushing to have evolution removed from the curriculum.

Accosting me on the street and harassing me to go to church.

Starting to pray -after- I've started eating, making me sit politely yet stupidly with food in my mouth.

Crossing out "profane" words in library books.

Vandalizing library books on biology, astronomy, history, and other subjects which don't agree with their particular holy text.

Constantly whining about how persecuted Christians are in today's secular society.

And Chick tracts.

 

[This Guy]

I think it would be hard for anyone to "force" anyone else (not counting parents and their children) to believe in a religion. None of the things you list appear to me to be forcing someone to do anything. Are some of them aggravating? Sure. But none of them are, in my opinion, a form of force, and while I may be annoyed by some of them, I would not take offense, or feel any dislike for the person doing it, unless it was done in a way intended to annoy me.

ETA: I do agree with the above comments about religious based laws. That would be a form of forcing ones religion on another, and I would certainly frown on that.

 

[slingblade]

Why did you leave out what, to me, would be the most obvious methods of "force," and the most likely (at least in the U.S.) to occur?

Making students pray in school, as part of the curriculum and/or normal school day.

Inserting religion-based speculations into science classes, as if they have the same legitimacy there as actual science.

Allowing religion-based school clubs, while denying said organization to other groups, such as the GLBT (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transsexual) students, for example.

Others:

Opening a secular activity with prayer.

Company get-togethers (like holiday banquets, picnics, and softball games) which an employee is expected to attend, but which are loaded with overtones and outright declarations of the boss' religion.

And, frankly, any secular, non-religious activity I am expected to attend or required to attend. If you can force me to be there, I will really resent your foisting your religion on me.

 

[Nogbad]

Blackadder's Puritan auntie took the cross thing a bit far though

 

[NobbyNobbs]

Since I am free to ignore all of the above actions, none of them are forcing a religion on me.

Several, though, are minor annoyances.

 

[Esperdome]

How about enjoying tax free status for their enterprises while the rest of us subsidize them through our taxes to pay for the roads to get to church, the fire and police departments who protect them, mailing their recruitment materials for free, etc.

Maybe Fnord could start a new poll with all of these wonderful examples of Christians actually forcing their religion on us.

 

[Madalch]

Blackadder's Puritan auntie took the cross thing a bit far though

Oh yes- removing furniture from the house because chairs are an invention of the devil.

At home, Nathaniel sits on a spike, and I sit on Nathaniel!

 

[Fnord]

Having religion forced on you is when other people's religious views impinge on your choices.

So not being able to eat a bacon sandwich because it might offend a Muslim or a Jew is having religion forced on you.
Having some loons blockading a cinema because they don't like Harry Potter (or whatever) is forcing religion on others ability to go about their legitimate business.
Attempting to pass religious laws that limit the rights of minorities, such as homosexuals, is forcing religion in an unreasonable manner.

Pushing for laws declaring that stores/bars/etc. must be closed on Sundays, on the grounds that we should be going to church.

Knocking on my door twice a week (and waking up my napping two-year-old) to tell me about the glories of their religion.
Pushing to have evolution removed from the curriculum.
Accosting me on the street and harassing me to go to church.
Crossing out "profane" words in library books.
Vandalizing library books on biology, astronomy, history, and other subjects which don't agree with their particular holy text.

Agreed. What constitutes "harassing" you to attend church?

Starting to pray -after- I've started eating, making me sit politely yet stupidly with food in my mouth.

Just keep eating. No one is forcing you sit politely yet stupidly with food in your mouth. If they start praying louder and longer, then chew louder … you know, the old “Seefood” diet…

And Chick tracts.

Because they exist or because they keep showing up in the darnedest places?

None of the things you list appear to me to be forcing someone to do anything. Are some of them aggravating? Sure. But none of them are, in my opinion, a form of force, and while I may be annoyed by some of them, I would not take offense, or feel any dislike for the person doing it, unless it was done in a way intended to annoy me.

Agreed.

Why did you leave out what, to me, would be the most obvious methods of "force," and the most likely (at least in the U.S.) to occur?

Maybe Fnord could start a new poll with all of these wonderful examples of Christians actually forcing their religion on us.

Because I have only 20 choices to offer, and a later version of this same poll is in the works. I hope that you'll provide some actual examples.

Making students pray in school, as part of the curriculum and/or normal school day.
Inserting religion-based speculations into science classes, as if they have the same legitimacy there as actual science.
Allowing religion-based school clubs, while denying said organization to other groups, such as the GLBT (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transsexual) students, for example.
Opening a secular activity with prayer.
Company get-togethers (like holiday banquets, picnics, and softball games) which an employee is expected to attend, but which are loaded with overtones and outright declarations of the boss' religion.
And, frankly, any secular, non-religious activity I am expected to attend or required to attend. If you can force me to be there, I will really resent your foisting your religion on me.

Agreed. Although if a person’s religion forbids them from standing during the national anthem, and they are “forced” to stand “or else”, then it’s the other side of the coin. Not that I would do it - I'm too proud of being an American to not respect our flag.

How about enjoying tax free status for their enterprises while the rest of us subsidize them through our taxes to pay for the roads to get to church, the fire and police departments who protect them, ...

Agreed.

... mailing their recruitment materials for free, etc.

How so? Please provide actual examples, especially where this is the exclusive priviledge of religious groups.

 

[Madalch]

Just keep eating. No one is forcing you sit politely yet stupidly with food in your mouth. If they start praying louder and longer, then chew louder … you know, the old “Seefood” diet…

Just because my religious friend is being rude doesn't mean I need to be rude in return. Her habit is annoying, but I'm not going to be a jerk about it.

 

[Rufo]

None of them. I'm looking forward to the new poll. The current one seems to be targeted only at the most intolerant and the most harassed (who for either reason can't stand people merely displaying their belief).

I admit that when children are subjected to some of these things, the issues are debatable, but since the poll was worded with "you", I suppose I should not count this.

What I'm really curious about is why the heckler who checked all the options left out "Being a Christian without your knowledge". What kind of advantage is that to give to your enemy? Knowing is half the battle!

 

[Fnord]

What I'm really curious about is why the heckler who checked all the options left out "Being a Christian without your knowledge". What kind of advantage is that to give to your enemy? Knowing is half the battle!

Every data stream has its noise level. It's a simple matter to subtract the noise from the actual data, even if this is an unscientific poll.

Besides, it's the detailed responsed that are more enlightening.

 

[wollery]

None of the above.

Nothing on that list requires my participation or pretence of belief, so nothing is forced on me.

 

[JoeEllison]

If in all cases listed, I can tell the person to **** off, it isn't "forcing" me to do anything. If the person can require my participation, or there is a penalty for telling them to **** off, it is "forcing", and is a problem.

 

[Esperdome]

Originally Posted by Esperdome
... mailing their recruitment materials for free, etc.

How so? Please provide actual examples, especially where this is the exclusive priviledge of religious groups.

I get solicitations from local chuches often to attend their services, Sunday school, vacation bible camp, etc. all the time. This material is mailed at no cost due to their non-profit org. status.

I even receive a monthly newsletter from a church I haven't attended for nearly 25 years. The reason for this, according to my mother, is that without a certain minimum mailing volume you loss your free non-profit mailing status. I have no evidence to verify this.

While this is not an exclusive privilege of religious organizations, if I went on a rant about other supposed non-profits abusing the mail system, it might be considered a derail.

ETA: I can't seem to use up a book of stamps anymore before the post office decides to raise the cost of stamps.

 

[gnome]

None of the above constitute any kind of force. If this is the behavior someone thinks non-Christians object to, then I hope this thread helps clear up a few things.

 

[gtc]

Crossing out "profane" words in library books.

What about crossing out non-profane words to humorous effect:

Knocking on my <censored> twice a week to tell me about the glories of their <censored>.

Starting to <censored> -after- I've started <censored>ing, making me sit politely yet stupidly with <censored> in my mouth.

 

[DARK LORD XENU]

Sorry to burst your bubble but it is none of the above!
For example if some one invites you to church or offers to say a prayer for you they are just trying to be nice.
Sure chances are they may have alteria motives

 

[Terry]

Other - trying to get laws passed that legislate their religious beliefs. Like DOMA, for one instance.