Politicizing hurricane Katrina

[Mark]

Ah ... Mark ... claimee's post supported your argument.

NOT the argument that you had with ME which had absolutely NOTHING to do with the RESULTS of any poll but your general argument that GWB's approval ratings have gone down.

Please thank claimee.

Jen

Sorry guys ... had to reply.

Thank you Claimee. I was agreeing with Claimee's post anyway, Jen, but I will grant that I may not have been clear on that.

 

[JenJen]

Thank you Claimee. I was agreeing with Claimee's post anyway, Jen, but I will grant that I may not have been clear on that.

And I thought you were just being a wild eyed lib.



'Til we meet again.

Jen

 

[Bruce]

Turns out they're completely innocent of all charges and to be held blameless.

Either that or they tried to exterminate a few hundred thousand good Americans.

Jen

I wonder if the Whigs listen to Sean Hannity....

 

[JenJen]

I wonder if the Whigs listen to Sean Hannity....

If you want to talk knee-jerk extremist partisans, you don't have to look far in the left, either.

Sean Hannity vs Michael Moore (or Randi Rhodes or ...) - ideally, we'd never have to hear from either of them again.

Jen

 

[ShowMe]

Buses which were owned by . . .

a PRIVATE company. Ba-da-ding!

Here are your everloving buses.

Those much-focused-on-by-desperate-to-blame-Ray-Nagin-conservatives buses numbered around 200. At ~66 per bus, that's ~13,000 people out of 80,000 that could have been evacuated, assuming permission and drivers could be found in time, and liability questions regarding the whole affair could have been answered.


The buses are irrelevant. They were not nearly enough to deal with a catastrophe of this size.

So, after one trip for evacuees you take the busses and throw them away?

Even assuming one trip I wouldn't call 13,000 people "irrelevant".

As for the "take them to where?" question, isn't disaster prep the responsibility of, I don't know...local officials?

Seems to me the "desperate-to-blame-Ray-Nagin" aren't so much desperate as, well, correct.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Simple skeptical analysis? What does that mean? The NY Times admits that they are liberal and you refute it? Huh? The more you post, the more you embarrass yourself.

Yes, simple analysis -- investigating the claim to determine if there's context or subtext that would add or alter meaning. Y'know, the ol' skeptical process, rather than...well, whatever thought process some I could name engage in.

Face value has little value.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Wow. Talk about a de-rail.


So, how about them Whigs?

How is discussion about GWB's approval numbers as they relate to the thread's title/subject a derail?

How 'bout them Bull Moose?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
Clearly the left has sought to take political advantage and exploit the events for their own agenda.

Evidence?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
10.5 billion was allocated in 3 or 4 days. Iraq had nothing to do with money. If it did 10.5 billion wouldn't be flowing into NOLA now.

Congress OKs $10.5B Katrina Aid Package

Is that sufficent proof?

With respect you claimed in response to the query
'Where was the money to work on the levee -- the very levee which broke and flooded the city!! I give you one guess.'

You claimed that 'There was money.'

If there was (past tense) money, as you claim, for N'yallins defences why it was not spent on the defences before the storm or did you mean that it wasn't actually available (present tense) until after all those people died?

 

[RandFan]

Evidence?

Are you kidding? Look, I'm pissed at the response and I think FEMA failed and I think Bush needs to take responsibility but there is no evidence that this was the result of racism and much that is coming from the left is claims of racism and only put blame on Bush. The Mayor clearly failed, the governor failed. They also knew in advance the chance for disaster but they didn't even enact their own plan. The focus of the left seems clearly only on Bush. Please to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Mycroft]

Are you kidding?...

I am in awe of your patience, but just don't forget who you're talking to.

 

[RandFan]

With respect you claimed in response to the query
'Where was the money to work on the levee -- the very levee which broke and flooded the city!! I give you one guess.'

You claimed that 'There was money.'

If there was (past tense) money, as you claim, for N'yallins defences why it was not spent on the defences before the storm or did you mean that it wasn't actually available (present tense) until after all those people died?

I'm not sure of your point. If we could raise money now we could have raised money then.

There is never enough money to get it right but for some reason there is always enough money to fix it.

I fault Bush and FEMA heavily for the failures. They were not alone however. These problems were known long before Bush and the local governments clearly had a major cluster f***.

Do you only fault the Bush and those on the right? Do you think this was the result of racist politics?

 

[RandFan]

I am in awe of your patience, but just don't forget who you're talking to.

That is a good point. I need to re-examine my decision to take everyone off of my ignore list.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
The focus of the left seems clearly only on Bush.

Who are these people. You ascribe a number of things to the left but have failed to identify them. Who are thses bogey peopel that you seem to want to keep warning us about?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Mycroft
I am in awe of your patience, but just don't forget who you're talking to.

The arch-antisceptic speaks. Bearing in mind that it is many months since you refused to define the central word in your own claim it is always fascinating to watch you making this sort of intervention.

Please keep it up. You always reminds me why this site is so needed.

 

[RandFan]

Who are these people. You ascribe a number of things to the left but have failed to identify them. Who are thses bogey peopel that you seem to want to keep warning us about?

How about Sidney Blumenthal? He points out that Bush cut the funding for building of the levees. He doesn't point out that the Army Corps of Engineers states that this would not have prevented this disaster. This fact is lost on Blumenthal and others who keep chanting this Mantra. Blumenthal and others don't go out of their way to provide all of the facts because the facts are inconvenient to their agenda.

How many such incidents do you need? It seems rather ridiculous to prove the obvious.

FactCheck.org

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
That is a good point. I need to re-examine my decision to take everyone off of my ignore list.

The arch anti-sceptic Mycroft whispers in your ear after you are asked a simple question and you debate putting people on your ignore list?

Sort of says it all or perhaps Oscar Wilde said it better
'Bad artists always admire each other's work; they call it being broadminded and free from prejudice.'

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
How many such incidents do you need?

I didn't make the claim. You did. Is one enough for you?

You also claimed that
'The focus of the left seems clearly only on Bush.'

As you have seen fit to give me only one example of this so-called left let me quote you something else Sidney Blumenthall says about Condaleeza Rice in http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/090805M.shtml
'During the early days of the hurricane and flood, she had been vacationing in New York, taking in Monty Python's "Spamalot" and spending thousands on shoes at Ferragamo on Fifth Avenue. In the store, a fellow shopper reportedly confronted her, saying, "How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!" - prompting security men to bodily remove the woman. ' Clearly your allegation that the left, insomuch as you have so far only defined it as Sidney Blumenthal, did not only focus on Bush as you claimed so your claim is false.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Randfan
If we could raise money now we could have raised money then.

You haven't addressed the question that if it was actually available in the past why wasn't it spent?

Do you only fault the Bush and those on the right? Do you think this was the result of racist politics?

I don't only fault Bush and don't believe the response to the storm demonstrates much about racism but a lot about the attitude of the powerful to the poor and needy and the USA and to the wider environment.

 

[RandFan]

You haven't addressed the question that if it was actually available in the past why wasn't it spent?

It wasn't allocated. That it wasn't allocated doesn't mean that it wasn't available? Where did the current 51 billion come from?

I don't only fault Bush and don't believe the response to the storm demonstrates much about racism but a lot about the attitude of the powerful to the poor and needy and the USA and to the wider environment.

I would love to see some evidence?